Bit miffed why my dd 2.11 is being labled with having SN when i know full well that she is not (long post sorry)

[pigletmania]

I took my dd 2.11 to pre school today, I asked to have a little chat with the manager about how my dd is getting on as i have had no feedback from them, and last time she was there she refused to have her nappy changed and bit and scratched staff (she does not seem to like small dark spaces such as toilets), dd is not violent or aggressive so this was totally out of character. The manager said that if dd was staying on after 3 she would be refered to SENCO as they were concerned that she was not following a routine, and not sitting still at story time or doing as she was asked, wtf, show me a young child that does. Any young child would rather play with the colourful toys or paints on display than sit listening to a story. DD will be going to the nursery attached to the local primary when she turns 3 in March.

DD is very babyish for her age, and her speech is not as fluent as it could be and she is not yet potty trained, but the HV and others have said that it will come when she is ready. She is only at pre school for 4 hours a week, so they do not know how she is really like, at home she is different. DD can say all her alphabet, recognise numbers one to 10, basic colours and shapes and knows her nursery rhymes, and can speak if she wants to. DD is very stubbon and stong minded and not a performer, will do it when she wants in her own time. I explained this to the manager and she was surprised as dd is not like that in pre school. Why are they so quick to lable a child espcially one so young? The manager said also that they have an Early years curriculum, and they have to tick off certain criteria, my goodness not all children are the same and will be at the same stage.

I have studied psychology/child psych to Masteres level so know that each child is different and develops in different ways, they are not robots all developing at the same time, it is a little early imo to make a special needs assumption, i am just a bit upset and sad about this as i know that dd is a late developer like i was and does not have SN. Fair enough once she reaches school age than yes, but at the moment she is still developing and learning, and may catch up soon enough especially once she starts nursery school full time. As the HV has told me a month is an awful long time for a child, so just give it time not jump to conclusions.

Your DD sounds like mine at that age. One teacher tried to label her at aged 6 (not sure as what) but ignored it. She has been fine since. I would see how things are once she starts nursery and reception.

Don't mean to hijack but what does having a label mean. What extra help does a child get and does it mean a carers allowance say for ADHD?

Also, I am well aware that people with an SEN can be clever. I work in a university; we have members of the department who have autism and other SEN. We also have many very capable students with SEN. It is about making sure people get appropriate support.

Oh dear, it is difficult. I do get Piglet why you feel so strongly about it, it is a bit of a stomach blow having the SENCO mentioned but if you stand back objectively and look at a summary of why they are saying this (can't remember who summarised) I think you can sort of see where they are coming from.

Totally agree with you about each child developing in different ways but I think sometimes having done something like Psychology stands in the way a bit (I speak as someone with Psychology degree who was about to do Ph.D and have a child with dyspraxia), things are so different when you are the parent. I wish DD had been picked up a little earlier, it wasn't as when the HV asked me if she was OK with various things I would say yes, as DD being my first child I kind of assumed what was going on was normal. It was only having DS later that I realised how actually, her early development had whopping great red flags all over it.

It sounds like a very sensible plan to wait till she starts nursery full time as it is soon, but to be very open to any feedback from new nursery and don't try to explain anything away, as it is so easy to explain separate incidents away as being down to something but you do need to take in the whole picture, which is pretty difficult being a parent.

MillyR, im sorry to hear you and your ds have had a hard time.

They didnt treat your son as if he had autism, as you said that is not how you treat someone with autism. Usually a child has an IEP when they have been identified as having special needs not on the grounds of anything else. The school sounds terrible.

It is not down to the old or new school or any school for that matter what his diagnosis is/was. Was your ds never assessed by professionals?

Did you ever complain to anyone?

Im not understanding why an LEA would insist that a child has autism and why a parent would have to get a specialist to argue that they dont. LEA do not give diagnosis.

I dont know if the op's child has an SEN either. I wouldnt be wary of a child care worker raising their concerns, i would welcome it whether my child had SN or not.

MillR
If it is any comfort I believe that if you had come on here and said that your child was having his face held as a means of improving eye contact ( in an assumed autistic child) I think most people would have told you to get him out of there double quick.

And I have never in my life, and never would, attempt to identify ASD in a child via the internet - nor would I suggest anyone was in denial.

I would say that if reasonably sensible professionals think an assessment may be helpful then it generally is.

In your case the problem was not the assumption of autism. The problem was the appalling lack of knowledge displayed by the staff.A child with ASD having his face held would not be being helped in any sense.

My friend who had someone to come and argue against the diagnosis took her child to see someone from the Oxford Autism Research Group. The payment was more to cover their travel costs (as we are in the North) rather than a professional fee. Their child had a very different experience as is started out as a mistake made by a health visitor, who thought they were carrying out a routine development check on a 5 year old, when the child was in fact only 3 (but tall). By the time the original mistake was realised, the child had been referred on and other health professionals had agreed that the child did have autism.

I didn't complain because after two years I was very distressed/stressed out, and also because the school was in special measures, was due to get a new head, a number of other children were taken out of the school for similar reasons to DS, and so I thought that the problems within the school would eventually be resolved without me needing to pursue it.

Despite me giving examples of a school making a mistake and a health visitor making a mistake, I actually think problems are more likely to arise in pre-school playgroups, because they are often run by parental committees on a shoe-string budget, and the staff lack development opportunities and support.

But nobody has labelled the OP's child! The nursery was just discussing what they would be putting in place if they had the chance to get to know the child more.

Sorry jamie did not want to say it was you I juar feel a bit about it, everything that dd does now I keep seeing sN, when she just had a tantrum in the park today, instead of thinking terribal twos i was thinking is that SN, and every other little thing too. I know that it is nothing to be sad about but its the way i feel

Trouble iwth talk, her speech is not as good as it should be, the HV recommended the SALT drop in at the hospital which i will go to with dh. i think she finds it hard to express herself and gets frustrated. DD can say about 5-6 word sentances, but if she does not know how to say what she is feeling, the crying like a baby comes into play. Sorry i am just feeling a bit and mabey put a negative slant on it. Plus i have my DM here driving me batty so i am a bit aghhhhh

Well it's a jump that is ignorant of standard early years procedures then. Who else are the nursery staff supposed to ask for help when the time comes to plan for Inclusive places? How is there anything subjective, labelly or stigmatising there?

I totally understand that the OP feels shocked and perhaps feels she is being judged herself (all parents of SN kids have been there.) But I do think she is reading stuff into the situation that just isn't there.

Sorry Pigletmania, didn't mean to be rude, I'm sure this has all turned things upside down for you. Is DD your first? I only spotted my DS's SN because he was so different to my first. Do come and chat on the SN board if you start to feel things might be headed that way.

Yes she is my first. Thanks Gladioli i think that i will

yes trouble, she does have a lot of nounes, but expressive language is not too good at all. she will say a yellow bus when she sees one, or point to a triangle that she sees. And tells me the toys that have batteries, if they make a noise. Thanks Trouble you know a lot about this stuff.

Thanks Wyken it is really interesting to hear all your experiences and i will keep an open mind and wait until she is in the other new setting. If she needs to SENCO so be it if it is found she needs to and extra help. I think that seeing the SALT will help too. If she hurts herself she does not know how to tell you and ends up crying.

I have absolutely no idea, piglet, whether your DD has SN or not. Does sound like playgroup haven't handled it very well - they should have spoken to you earlier about concerns, not waited till you asked. Think it's a very good idea indeed to have her see the drop-in SALT. worth checking with SALT about her understanding of language, as if she has any receptive language problems that might be why she's not interested in story time/doing what is asked.

Yes I will take her, i think it will be really good for her, its more to do with her language i think more than anything.

pigletmania hi

When DD1 was 2.6 I enrolled her in the preschool my friend's daughter attended. My friends and I discussed how she was 'well ready' and even the deputy leader on our unofficial drop-in visit said 'well she's going to be fine isn't she!" DD1 was always so independent. Never shy or reserved.

On her first session, I noticed the door was open at the back of the hall, and said to the staff "DD1 is a bit of a runner - she'll be out of that door". They reassured me that they deal with preschoolers all the time. They soon came back to me with "See what you mean....".

At the end of term (she started in the June) her preschool leader said "I'm so looking forward to seeing how DD1 has developed after the summer break". I thought nothing of it. I know they change so much at this age.

At 2.9, two weeks after her return in September, the preschool leader and SENCO approached me, and said that as DD was 'a little behind', they'd like to get her some extra help.

I agreed that they could invite their Area Inco to see DD. No problem.

I really honestly thought nothing of it. I knew that DD had walked a little late (23 months).

The Area Inco said that DD1 was 'immature' and she would arrange some 1:1 funding. But by then I had thought about little niggles & voiced them. She agreed to refer to a paed.

DD1 went on to fall for no reason.

By 2.10 DD1 was diagnosed with epilepsy & Global development delay.

At 3.4 we had a brain malformation diagnosed. She will go to Special school in September.

I AM NOT saying your DD has significant special needs. But I know how far DD1 is behind now, and she has had 1:1 support for 12-15 hour each week for the last 18 months. I shudder to think how very far behind she would have been without that support.

IMO, your nursery were operating 'watch and wait', but your request for feedback left them in a position where they would be negligent not to raise their concerns.

piglet
help with speech can be miraculous.
My DS2 still has significant delays but when he started talking properly it changed so many things.
he had become quite tense and angry because he was trying to speak but could not ( oral dyspraxia).
Once he could communicate he became much happier and a lot of thetantrums stopped.

He is 13 now and has ASD too. He still cannot articulate language.
He was diagnosed as having autism at 3 but I woulkd have given ANYTHING for earlier help with his speech. The sooner you get help with speech the better.

piglet - no worries. I just don't want to mislead anyone.

Do you think you'll feel better about a referral if it comes about at the new nursery ?

It seems to me that this is all bound up with you perhaps feeling they didn't deal with the biting incident very well, and feeling "blamed" by them about her biting that time ?

Sorry - I see you've answered that, really, above