in thinking that there should be a "what not to do" Book for MIL's?

[Kitkatqueen]

Ok, so there have been quite a few MIL aibu's lately including the 1st Haircut another memorable one for me was the MIL who gave her grandchild his 1st food while his mum had popped to the shops. Oh!! and the MIL who wanted to "suckle" her grandchild so that she could bond with them.....

Upset was caused, trust was lost, so what is the "line"? what shouldn't MIL's do?

I'm hoping that one day I will be a MIL 4 times over and I would hate to think that I had caused so much upset. So...
What have your MIL's done that they shouldn't iyvho?

Pisces, she knew how much her comment hurt. She knew how much everything she did hurt. I know she did. She did stuff to wind me up as that's her way, but who the feck winds up a first time mum suffering from depression. When she could see that I was coping better, she got personal and started on my appearance "when was I going to lose the weight/ sort my hair out etc"

She also knew I was depressed as she told other family members yet she still stuck the knife in. Her DH died a couple of years ago and I think she saw my DS as something for her to focus on which I could understand, but she tried to push me out of my own family. I remember my first birthday with DS,we specifically said that we were spending the day together and would see her the next day. She then turned up unannounced and stayed all day hogging him - I didn't get a look in. She is one of those people that does not take a hint. Unless you tell her outright to fuck the hell off, she will carry on then when you do say, can we have some time on our own, she acts like a victim. Besides, I think that was for DH to do, not me. I was so ill and exhausted and begged him to tell her to back off but he didn't, and that's another story.

In the end, I had to seperate myself from it so when she came round, I wouldn't answer the door, when she rang I ignored it. I never went to her. She finally left us alone to start our family life, and that is all I wanted - some time to bond with my baby. A few months away from her and I felt so much better like I had control of my life again. I sound mental I know, but unless you have had a MiL like it, you'd probably think I was mad.

I hope I'll be a MiL one day yes, and I know that I will never forget the way she was with me, and I know that I will trip over myself not to be the same.

I have rambled on, but 14 months down the line, I am still so angry about it all.

I take back what I said then, Bambino-unfortunately you seem to have one of the toxic ones and need to protect yourself.

My in-laws seem pretty overwhelming too me at times, but the thought of anyone having to ask permission to pick up their own grandchild (provided it is not asleep) makes me sad.
Maybe because it reminds me of my own grandparents not being allowed to touch their first grandchild because "old people" were "unhygienic" according to their DIL.
I don't know if the same prohibition applied to the DIL's own mother, but am told she was at least considered clean enought to iron the baby's nappies.

My MIL asked whether I could get my breastmilk tested as she didn't think I was capable of providing enough nutrition for my twins. (She bottle fed her kids).

MIL also said (in the same conversation about breastfeeding) that If I laid the babies on their backs to sleep they would die as they would swallow their own vomit.

And when the boys were first born, they were in a special care unit for a few days, I wasn't feeling up for visitors in the hospital and just wanted some time for me and DH to get to grips with everything. MIL said "Why can't we come? What will people think?" (My reaction at the time, not directly to her was: F* what people think, it's not about you!!!)

She also said that one of the twins would turn out to be an evil twin. !!!

Big nails in the coffin of our relationship. I got on pretty well with her before the birth but since then it has all gone massively downhill. Thing is, I can't move on from this - the boys are 21 months old now and I don't want to have anything to do with her. I don't refuse contact with the boys, I just don't encourage it. DH was understanding but thinks I should just move on. I think I should too but she is toxic!!

Thanks for this chance to rant. Any advice gratefully received.

breathe or better yet (according to many DILs ) exist

I'd buy a copy, but it should definately have a large chapter devoted to gifts from for grandchildren.
Perhaps some advice on toy safety.
My MIL and I differ somewhat in our concept of 'toy safety'. This Christmas I had to prise from the hands of my 2 and 4 year old children and 2 year old neice a toy which must have broken just about every toy law in writen....
Tiny, brittle plastic sticks containing badly glued, smaller-than-pill-sized magnets, many of which were falling out onto the table. Some of the magnets were crushed into powder and stuck onto other bits. I think it was an attempt to copy the magnetix. Were the hell she got it I can't even imagine. After much screaming from the children and glaring from the other adults - who couldn't see the problem with two year old children (one who's already undergone major bowel surgey thank you) eating magnets.
After her cat had fleas, she was happy to reasssure me that every toy, even the plastic baby toys that my DD was sucking on had been treated with a very strong chemical flea-repellant.
I was also told off for being 'too much of a worrier', when I looked up from the paper to discover that DD was playing with grandads pill box which she had aquired by climbing onto the desk where he was sitting.
Gnahhhhh!!!!
Then there's the fact that she is a very heavy smoker and thinks that all the scientists are wrong. Smoking 4 meters away from a child in a nearby room with a door slightly ajar or in the same room they are playing in, just as long as they have left it for 5 mins, is considered sufficient protection against the dangers of passive smoking.
Sob!!!

Bucharest - my mil decided that she should see ds who was only 15 months without me - ds being a complete mammone agreed and I was informed when I got back from work that he was taking ds to Italy for a few weeks without me.

Erm bloody no - we've never recovered from the fallout.

Mil also decided to tell dh to put the flat she lives in (owned by dh - he bought it off her and she calls it his inheritance) into ds's name - it meant they got doocuments in ds's name and they can now apply for a passport (Bucharest - can they in Italy do this without my knowledge - ds born in UK) - and she made my dh pay for this process - it cost roughly a third of the value of the property and it meant we couldn't afford a holiday that year). She's now intentionally homeless living in ds's flat and so wants to come and live in the UK with us!

Oh - and she wants to come here all the time but neeeds us to go and pick her up (hence we never have money for holidays) and she stays months.

My contribution about mils from my experience would be to get a life and not suck the life blood out of ours!

SeeingDouble , no advice I'm afraid but just wanted to say that I totally understand how you feel. I can't move on either. The only way I can cope [have coped] is to take myself away from the negativity, hence why DH always takes DS to her (without me) and why we don't invite her here. I dread to think how I'd be now if I hadn't distanced myself.

Not sure how supportive your DH is but mine just doesn't get it. Well, he gets that she's wound me up and upset me but he doesn't get why I can't ignore it like he has always done. It has put a huge strain on our relationship and, if I'm honest, I have lost a bit of respect for him over the past year or so. he's a brillant dad, but he has never told his mum to stop with her shit. I sometimes wonder if our marriage will get through this or if I'll always have a bit of resentment towards him. I don't even want sex with him anymore, I feel that let down by him over this. [too much info emoticon]

Seeing double and bambino - easier to move on if dhs tackle their dms about this type of thing.

Easy to say - move on - but that's a bit of fobb off if they didn't make it clear to their dms that they are out of order.

Seeingdouble - I'm in your position - I've lostquite a bit of respect for dh as he has and will never put his foot down with mil. By his own admission she's manipulating and so kmows what she's like with me - ie pushes her luck to an extreme - but he basically rolls over, does what she says (ie her extended visits, us having to travel abroad and pick her up, her bitchiness to me - taking over our small home to the point where my stuff gets thrown out, even on parenting - and that's why I found my 2 month baby on a hot summers day so overdressed and with two hats and 4 blankets zonked out in the pushchair and they had him facing the sun - but if that's what she wants my dh will do even when he knows fully well that he's putting ds at risk).

I feel they are the couple - all decision involving our family are run through her.

Yep, it's great where dh's actually love and show respect to the mums but that respect does need to be reciprocated.

Bambino and Giveitago

Thanks for sharing the pain! It's good to hear from others in the same position.
Bambino - I can understand your resentment towards DH - does he get cross when he has to see his MIL without you?

I have to defend my DH here though. He was embarrassed and angry by MIL's behaviour; he also wanted support from his parents during the first year but never got it, it was just all demands. We've talked about how to move on and decided that telling her how much of a witch she is isn't the best way forward. She would lose the plot completely which wouldn't help anyone.

So I grit my teeth when they come round or if we absolutely have to go round there. But, I basically don't trust MIL with the boys which DH doesn't really get. I don't want that woman have any influence over my kids!!!

Interestingly though, whenever we see MIL and FIL the boys burst into tears and don't want to go near them. Probably a lot to do with my attitude even though I have never actually said anything bad about MIL/FIL in front of the boys.

Think I should just move on cos she is turning me into an evil woman!

giveitago - your h put his dm's feelings before the safety of his child?

IMO this is unforgivable.

Well, it's only because he trusts her judgement over mine.

She basically had him dh very very young - deprived background, country girl, can't even speak her own language but a dialect (they didn't have tv) etc etc - but she's been an incredibly crap mother herself - her dh was physically abusive to both her and dh - ok with sil - she paid for sil to go to uni and did nothing for dh and she once told me that a woman has to be a martyr and keep the family together at all costs and kids just have to learn to adapt. Well, dh never did adapt to being betean and verbally abused - he's a bloody mess in middle age. Mil was a glorified housekeep and she's made dh feel very very sorry for her.

It's all about her. She's got a louder voice than mine and is a pain so she gets listened to. I remember dh once gave 12 month ds a very nasty cheese grater to play with - I took it off him and as mil was on of her extended stays (!) saw me and because I'd gone against dh - took it off me and have it back to ds again - at which point I went bonkers. I was told I was mad.

As she did nothing for dh - her way now is to back him in bloody everything - and I mean everything - and he backs her in everything.

Pitiful. Pride over safety - that's why I'll never leave ds alone with her until he can look after himself.

Jesus Christ.

You are still married? Not being sarcastic but am unsure how you tolerate this.

Mine were great, mother and MIL and I hope I am too but then they did live a very long way away which presumably makes it all a lot easier. I don't think they ever criticised anything. Perhaps they knew we wouldn't tolerate it. My late mother was very difficult to be with in general but very good over the births and how we brought them up. I could go back to work after 2 weeks' leave full time because I chose and it was best for our family. I could breastfeed in front of all the family etc etc.... I did appreciate how lucky I was and I do hope I can be good with my children's children too.

If in doubt, say nowt is an old English expression and it is very wise in so many situations, unless as a grandparent you can see abuse and have to intervene.

The other issue is not to enable the wrong behaviour of others which is a whole other topic in itself. My mother and I would never have tolerated sexism in a relationship, not for one hour. Some women endure it for years and something you think in a sense they are passively agressively accepting and condoning that behaviour. Every time you imply a man can't change a nappy as well as woman you're really doing men down in a nasty sexist way and damaging yourself and your daughters too.

Yes but only just - some of this is cultural difference. I've seen this alot with people in the rural area where they are from - if only I'd learnt the language sooner I'd have run a mile!!!!!! I've also seen it with his community here. If I've ever broached the subject with any other women they kind of grimace and shrug their shoulders and say oh well - they just put up with it and are very critical of their own children's partners and so it goes on.

That's not me and I agree with Xenia regarding enabling and that's why I struggle. If I were to try and explain this to mil or dh they really wouldn't understand or be interested and when you try to be assertive you are somehow a bitch.

My mil basically doesn't think much of women - she's not supporting her daughter's divorce even though sil is getting out of the relationship for her own safety!!!! Bonkers really.

What a brilliant place to vent - if I say anything they look at me in disbelief and say I'm mad.

I don't think it's mad to want an equal relationship, be asked if people are coming to stay, to esnure you protect your children from harm and part of them is to show them a healthy and respectful relationship within the family. No?

i totally agree with Seeker, family is important & dh's family has just as much place in our lives as mine - I have no right to favour mine over his.

However, I do have PIL who caused dh so much deep seated grief & anxiety that not only have we moved thousands of miles away (he wanted Australia, we settled on US), but he is refusing to return to the UK to ever see them again, and has decided, after my most recent visit, that he will not phone/email/skype until his mum tries to contact us first.

I want dd to have a happy & healthy relationship with ALL her family & I spend a lot of time, money & energy trying to make this happen.

Sadly, some people are just messed up & as they get older and more 'settled in their ways' become harder to get along with.

so ... my advice on any IL relationship is ... remember that there are many people on this earth, and very few of them are evil, more often complicated and confused. Only if a relationship is genuinely damaging (rather than frustrating, exasperating etc) should you consider cutting ties or trying to change their behaviour or contact with your family.

and yes, it's fine to come on here & rant a little.

I think it's perfectly possbile to say some cultural practices are wrong. In the UK in the 1950s there was so much shame if you had a baby outside of marriage it was hidden and the child adopted. That was our cultural practice and it was wrong. We changed it. In the 1800s women couldn't vote or own property. It was wrong. We changed it. It wasn't just a subjective practice that you dont' judge. We did judge it. It was wrong and it was changed and should be throughout the world. It's only by individuals being strong enough to change cultural practices which breach fundamental human rights of equality of all adults whatever their sex before the law and perhaps just as importantly in the home, that you get changes made.

But it was easy for me as like many others we moved away for university from home so lived a long way away from parents. I want my 5 children to stay nearish to me in London so I can have a closer relationship with my grandchildren than my parents managed and if you have a closer relationship you are more involved so it gets harder.

Plenty of cultures and workplaces see women's conduct as assertive and bad whereas with men you'd get a promotion. That's what we need to fight against. I suspect it helped that I earned 10x more than my children's father. Is money power then? So therefore educatnio of women and then getting well paid jobs in all continents the way to ensure progress? It certainly seems to be. It's why the FT supports charities which give money to women for business in Africa and India etc. Anyway I've got a bit off the point of the interfering grand mother and sometimes there's a duty to put up with someone old who is being difficult because we'll all be old sometime and in Catholicism and I'm sure in many other religions putting up with what you don't like can be pretty good for you sometimes.

I do cut mil slack however xenia because she's never had a chance to have a childhood and she like many people don't like things outside their world view - and her's is tiny as she's had a life contained in about 1 square mile until her ds met me.

Where I draw the line is her being a big influence with ds because she's so manipulative, highly ignorant (in the truest sense, predjudiced and desperate.

If I were to say to dh 'I won't go to see your mum unless she first apologises for the problems she's created and only when she undertakes to be less willinging dependent (ie coming over for extended stays when she wants at her convenience and we have to fly over and get her - bloody incredible) -then she won't see us again, he'd divorce me a second and no great income from me would change that. I think it's more about culture than money these days as everyone I know has a better income than their dps - but they all have husbands who want to control and lay down the law.

Extended families are always fraught - and my family is no different.

Xenia 5 KIDS - respect.

Well,I have read the comments with great interest.many of you seem to be constantly at war with your MIl over the one person you both love.In some posts,neither of you come out of it very well, and I can see the problems from both sides.I wouldnt want either of you!! I will be a MIL one day,I have made it plain from day 1,should they have childrenmdo not look to me to provide free childcare, they are YOUR children,not mine,I May help out in an emergency,providing it doesnt interfere with anything I have already planned,I will not be babysitting, so no worries about me snooping around,in short, I wont be there,so no worries as to me being a rotten MIL
I do feel sorry for some of the MIl's tho'.some of you seem to overcritical and at times very unreasonable and unpleseant.My own MIL died very recentl, she was great, we never had a cross word and I try and model myself on her,you are making it too hard for yourselves.

I do think you should look at her before you get married. My DH looked at my mother because he realised that is what he will get when he is older-I am very like my mother! Has it not occurred to people that the child they produce may be a mini MIL, either in looks, character or both! Her genes have as much chance of coming out of the gene pool as your own! Until we get designer babies, you get what you are given!

I think the problems people have with the mils are either that they are cold or uninterested - or hugely demanding and interfering.

Everyone should swap! All those who complain about the overly interested should swap with all those who complain about the uninterested!
I did think it sad earlier on when one of the rules was don't pick up the baby without permission of the mother. Probably the same people who don't want strangers touching them or talking to them.

But back the original post the thing I wouldn't advise a mil to do is to

a) stop her dil breastfeeding ie not hand baby back to mummy for a feed, or barge into the room where the feed is happening demanding to know 'what are you doing to that child to make him cry' or even when mummy in desperation is sneakily expressing milk at night and putting in the fridge, going to the fridge and throwing the milk away.

b)not insist on going along to the 6 week check, insisting on holding the baby and not give it back to mummy or even give baby to the doctor to check or even ask for a tranlsation for everything the doctor asks in relation to the baby so she can answer it as she clearly knows more about the current developmental and health issues about the baby than the mum. That results in the doctor losing their temper and asking the mummy to translate something quite harsh to mil.

You gotta laugh.