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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For hating this teen phrase?

216 replies

Enchilada81 · 13/02/2010 09:00

Didn't put it in the subject header incase it offended anyone!

But basically DS has gotten into the habit of saying "spaz" a lot. For instance when DS2 couldn't get the PC working and then realised it wasn't plugged in DS1 said "you spaz!" etc.

I told him off and asked him not to say it but I think they're saying it that often at school it comes out too naturally.

When DS's friend was here the other night, DS was messing around and his friend said "come on, don't be a spaz"

Another variation is spaz attack. For instance "oh mum it was so funny in history today, everyone was messing around and Mr Smith ended up just having a total spaz attack!"

And now I've just seen on facebook he and some other teens on my friend list have joined a group called "Having a dream about falling over and then having a total spaz attack in my bed"

Am I over-reacting? should I still try and stop him even though it seems they're all saying it?

OP posts:
2shoescoveredinhearts · 14/02/2010 09:32

Goblinchild I went one better, supplied her with a brother who would kick the shit out of anyone who called her a spaz.

Goblinchild · 14/02/2010 09:35

Good for him, but sad that it's necessary.
My son has never been bullied because in order for that to happen, he'd have to be targeted more than once by the same child.
Never happened. And he's never started a ruck either, only ever responded.

ImSoNotTelling · 14/02/2010 09:41

"Thing about special needs is horrid teenagers (and adults, shamefully) have started to use 'special' as an insult. I was at a dinner party with a teacher, FFS, who went on about one of her pupils being a bit 'special' while pulling a face...

No idea what can be done about it, apart from finding new words every time the fuckers turn the current non-discriminatory word into an insult. "

Is it not the words that are the problem, but horrible people.

You can ban all the words you like, you could have them magically stricken from the language, but horrible people will still find a way of being nasty to people who are different.

I suppose the thing to do there is educate in schools - not about racism, sexism, homophobia etc etc as where does that leave the ginger person or the disabled person or the person with a squint or whatever it might be that sets them apart. If you simply teach inclusivity and caring and compassion and how difference is not a bad thing maybe that would help. Rather then picking certiain "topics" and concentrating on them but missing the overall point. So that it's not "don't say nigger beacuse it's offensive" but "think before you say anything how it will feel to the person you are saying it to".

You need to give examples because many people do not realise what these words actually mean - kids use words like gay and mong without actually connecting them to where the word comes from. They are a part of their everyday language - so education as to what these (the more obviously offensive words) mean would help.

I think that people also need to accept that there is a difference between someone saying something horrible to someone, by picking on their difference, it totally different to people using words casually without realising what they mean. So the "a bit OCD" thing is something people said a lot in my old work - they weren't using it "at" people with OCD to be horrible, they were using a phrase which had become popular to describe a certain behaviour (which was not OCD). If someone had told them that OCD sufferers found it really offensive then they would have stopped.

Which then leads onto the other point that different people are offended by different things, some people are offended by things that you would never have thought of. Like "idiot" for example. As you can never tell who is offended by what (apart from obvious things) then surely it is better to try and leave it to common sense and people saying if they find something offensive, rather than wiping a whole load of words from teh language (which won't happen anyway).

Also I am always interested to note that different people with the same difference will find different things offensive. So if there is no consensus among the community how is anyone else supposed to know what's right and what's wrong? Which is where common sense comes in again.

Otherwise you get people trying to ban words and phrases which are actually fine, which alienates people who start thinking "pc gorn mad" and the whole message is weakened.

ImSoNotTelling · 14/02/2010 09:47

I am saddened to see that people are advocating violence as the answer to all of this. Where does that leave the many people who can't utilise physical violence?

There must be a better way than that.

It is also going back to people calling people things on purpose to upset them.

If a gay person heard someone in a shopping centre say in conversation "that is so gay" about an ice lolly or something, should they go and punch them in the face? I would say not.

2shoescoveredinhearts · 14/02/2010 09:52

you have apoint
but if schools and the police treated disablist abuse in the same way they do racism and there were penaltys to pay, maybe people would learn.
pretending kids don't know what the words mean is just wrong.
when ds was bing bullied and they used his sister as a weapon, are you trying to kid me that they didn't know calling dd a spaz wasn't wrong?
or the kid who refered to the kids at an sn college the other week as 'tards didn't know what it meant?
of course they do, a lot of them here it first from there parents who are so keen to have the right to use whatever words they want.

ImSoNotTelling · 14/02/2010 09:57

2shoes yes those ones did.

But there is a difference between people who are bullying - they will bully whatever - even if none of these words existed they would do it.

I genuinely believe that an average kind young person using these words is doing so because they are popular words - I believe they don't know what they mean.

When I was at school my best friend thought mong meant mongrel, I found out when I was about 15 and set her straight, she was mortified.

Disability is included in the "hate crime" category isn't it? I think the problem is that beyond racism, the police don't take any hate crimes very seriously in general. I have noticed though that there have been some very high profile hate crimes against disabled people recently, so the press at least are covering this, and if it is widely reported people will become more aware.

Re bullys - that is a different problem to the words, isn't it?

sarah293 · 14/02/2010 10:05

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pagwatch · 14/02/2010 10:21

But that brings us back to the point I made several pages ago - particularly the highlighting..

" The truth is that when you choose to use words that a decent proportion of reasonable people within that community are offended by, then you are just being a wanker. A pedantic wanker but a wanker nonetheless "

My point is that when huge swathes of people who are personaly affected by disability say that a word is dreadful then that seems to me to be a useful acid test.
My parents generation believed that 'coloured' was fine and they were not racist to use it.People who would never dream of using 'nigger' thought that 'coloured' was fine. The black community ( at the time) disagreed and their views held sway - which is surely how it should be.
I know very few people in the groups with whom I mix that think that retard or moron is OK - in fact I don't know any. But a substantial ppn of people still seem to want to justify it.

By the way 'wanker' is rude - it offends only those who do indeed masturbate incessantly - if anyone would own up to such a thing. Because to masturbate endlessly makes you a not terribly palatable person.
But to be disabled does not make you unpalatable. And if you reach for retard when looking for an offensive name then that directly links something offensive with learning disability. It means you want to find a word to make your target feel awful and ashamed and humiliated. The word you used to do that is disability. that suggests that to be disabled is to be humiliating, shameful, disgusting...
Which is why I stick to wanker.
( can't quite believe I need to say that but hey...)

If I said 'wanker' in front of a woman with her toddler with downs syndrome I would be embaressed ( not least as the toddler in my scenario is non comprehending - only the mother is. Why don't we make the toddler asleep - that would help the analogy).
But if i said retard I would hope that I would be deeply ashamed ( not that I would say that. Is anyone still with me.... thought not )

TotalChaos · 14/02/2010 10:27

applauds pag (as ever). Common courtesy seems to be very much out of fashion these days.

sarah293 · 14/02/2010 10:32

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pooexplosionsareimproving · 14/02/2010 10:36

FFS pag, do you listen to anyone but yourself?
To many many many people, moron is not anywhere close to the same level as retard.
You keep saying "decent proportion of reasonable people within that community are offended by" when what you mean is you and a small amount of people you know. A "decent proportion of reasonable people within MY community are NOT offended by" the word moron. Many people would agree that it has absolutley nothing to so with being a insult to the disabled in any shape.
Instead of listening to the fact that someone might have a slightly different view to you, you just assume they are being a "pedantic wanker".

Goblinchild · 14/02/2010 10:41

' ImSoNotTelling Sun 14-Feb-10 09:47:46
I am saddened to see that people are advocating violence as the answer to all of this.'

I'm not advocating violence as the answer to all this.
Back up the work that schools are doing on offensive language and discrimination. Teach your children that spaz and retard and paki are unacceptable, so that they understand why. Then no one gets hurt, either by hearing words that are incredibly personally offensive or by being thumped by the listener.
Do I want my son hitting offensive and taunting individuals? No.
Would I rather he lashed out than became a terrified, confused and bullied individual with mental health issues and suicide in his future? Yes.

pagwatch · 14/02/2010 10:47

yes.
I have no particular problem that my views are mine and I will stick to them until someone gives me a convincing arguement against. My views are based upon my experience and I am happy to listen to others who have different experiences.
You seem to assume that I have not listened to your arguement just because I have not been swayed by you.
I have listened to you.
I think your argument is crap.

When I was growing up then the vast vast majority of people I mixed with though that coloured was fine. They thought it was reasonable - polite even.
A relatively small number of people thought it was offensive. Perhaps their views should have been ignored too. I am quite sure many people argued convincingly that they should be ignored as they were the minority who just happened to be the affected group.
Does that mean that they were right?

If I start reading loads of posts from people on the SN board, at my sons school, at various places where I mix with people caring for children with SN or with disability affecting their family, and they tell me that moron is a kind of fun word really - then that will affect my view.

pagwatch · 14/02/2010 10:55

I should add that I perfectly accept that you believe my arguement to be bollocks too.
That is democracy I guess.

Which is why in the real word I don't advocate banning language - but I do hold dear to my right to believe that anyone using retard and moron is a prick.

sarah293 · 14/02/2010 11:00

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pooexplosionsareimproving · 14/02/2010 11:08

What on earth makes you think I DON'T have a disabled child? Or parent? Why assume I haven't been surrounded by disability my entire life?

You are so sure of yourselves you cannot bear any dissent. You fail to notice that I am ON THE WHOLE agreeing with you. I am picking on one particular word and telling you that in my community it is not offensive to those with additional needs as it does not relate whatsoever to disability. I do not live in your country, and we may use language differently to you. Are you so arrogant that you can tell everyone, everywhere, that they must find the same words offensive as you do? If I knew of a word that was highly offensive here but part of your completely fine language, would you immediately stop using it and start berating everyone else you know for doing so? I doubt it.

pagwatch · 14/02/2010 11:16

Poo you seem to be guilty of the very thing of which you accuse me.

I have said repeatedly that the majority of people I know think it is offensive. I think it is offensive.
You have a different experience and a different view. You chose to use it.
I chose to view that in whatever way I see fit.

I haven't told you not to use it. I have only told you how I will view your using it.
I have made no assumptions about your circumstances.

If I was told that a substantial body of affected people found a word offensive then I would very definately consider no longer using it.

For example I listened to many people on here explain 'chav'.Before I came to MN I had assumed it meant badly dressed . When I read others views I felt many of them had points that they made extremely well and now never use it

2shoescoveredinhearts · 14/02/2010 11:24

"I genuinely believe that an average kind young person using these words is doing so because they are popular words - I believe they don't know what they mean."

a person who uses these words is not "kind"
they loose that title when they start thinking it is ok to use these words.

(i had never hear of the word miong until I saw it on here)

2shoescoveredinhearts · 14/02/2010 11:29

ImSoNotTelling do you not think we tried it the right way.
that we didn't call the police when our house was being egged, that i didn't go to the school when ds was being bullied....

I did..

so wtf do you do when nothing is done, when the people involved carry on, when the police do nothing.......

so in the end your hits them, guess what.

house isn't egged anymore, ds isn't bullied anymore.
some times you have no choice.

pooexplosionsareimproving · 14/02/2010 11:30

You have pag, look back at what you said, your rant about people who defend themselves using offensive words being the people who use paki and slag, and how they are pedantic wankers who shout at kids on buses.

Whatever, you have zero understanding of cultural relativity of language and you're welcome to your big judgey high horse.

Goblinchild · 14/02/2010 11:30

"I genuinely believe that an average kind young person using these words is doing so because they are popular words - I believe they don't know what they mean."

So teach them that the words are wrong and offensive to many people.
In a clear, unambiguous way, so that there is no doubt in their minds about how individuals with CP, and those that know them, feel about the words spaz and retard and the rest.

sarah293 · 14/02/2010 11:32

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pagwatch · 14/02/2010 11:33

thank you ...

although don't remember ranting except for first post after which I apologised...
and never mentioned people shouting at kids on buses..
and don't think ranting is banning is it?

but do equate moron with slag
and stick by pedantic wankers ( although still not shouting at buses reference).

pagwatch · 14/02/2010 11:35

and actually think
"cultural relativity of language" fits into pedantic wanker category

pooexplosionsareimproving · 14/02/2010 11:41

Proving my point exactly. You want to try opening your mind a little, there are different countries and languages out there, and as shocking as this may be to you, they don't all think the same and use words in the same way!
If anyone is pedantic, it is clearly you.

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