For hating this teen phrase?

[Enchilada81]

Didn't put it in the subject header incase it offended anyone!

But basically DS has gotten into the habit of saying "spaz" a lot. For instance when DS2 couldn't get the PC working and then realised it wasn't plugged in DS1 said "you spaz!" etc.

I told him off and asked him not to say it but I think they're saying it that often at school it comes out too naturally.

When DS's friend was here the other night, DS was messing around and his friend said "come on, don't be a spaz"

Another variation is spaz attack. For instance "oh mum it was so funny in history today, everyone was messing around and Mr Smith ended up just having a total spaz attack!"

And now I've just seen on facebook he and some other teens on my friend list have joined a group called "Having a dream about falling over and then having a total spaz attack in my bed"

Am I over-reacting? should I still try and stop him even though it seems they're all saying it?

None of those words fit for describing someone driving through a red light though.

deficient and weak have bad connotations too I think?

My dd has come home from school using spaz and retard- she's in year 8. I've told her in no uncertain terms what I thought, and how if I heard her say it again, I'd send a note into her tutor (who she adores)
She was doing it because of peer pressure- and when her friends have been home for tea, I've had the discussion with them too.
Riven- did the Spastics Society change it's name for that reason? (I remember the models of little boys in calipers outside shops to put money into, in the 1960s)

Am now picturing ImSoNotTelling chastising herself in her car after forgetting DD's spare pants:

'I am so unconvincing' or 'I am so meagre.'

It's a constant battle with my students - they think that synonyms all have exactly the same meaning as the original word they looked up when it just doesn't work like that.

Not that I'm saying the original words are remotely acceptable but the solution isn't a list of synonyms.

I think meagre has potential Am hearing it in my head in ds tones and sounds like the sort of thing his lot would say!Although me suggesting it is the kiss of death

Is there no difference between using a word to someone with the inetention of causing offence, and using a word in a different context?

Lots of everyday words are offensive to some groups. I know people who are old who are offended when they are referred to as "old" - and the word old certainly can be used negatively - "miserable old git" for example - so is that offensive?

Or is there a line to be drawn somewhere between what is currently beyond the pale and what is used in daily language and is accepted, and used without reference to the original meaning.

God its like deja vu.

Op points out that using "spaz" is deeply offensive to some people

someone comes on to do a nice line in mastabatory psedo intellectual " oh then you must object to xx as in the 3rd century that was aterm for someone who had an unsightly mole"

people retort - but these terms being used now are upsetting real people, people who are not seeking to be offended but just are

twatty types start bleeting aboutthe restriction to freedom and form the Right to Call People Retard freedom army - presumeably from the position of not having anything worth while to stand up for.

Then all we need is cowardly twat to be inspired to write a bitchy AIBU and start making jokes about how mental MNers are spoiling their fun.

Same old.

Call people what you like - retard, nigger spaz, paki. Its all the same to me.
But accept that when you do so a portion of people will regard that in exactly the same way as if you get an "I'm a cunt" tattoo on your forehead.

You have the right to offend who you wish. It may make you feel better to turn it into a disingenuous arguement around the history of language but it makes no difference.

The truth is that when you choose to use words that a decent proportion of reasonable people within that community are offended by, then you are just being a wanker. A pedantic wanker but a wanker nonetheless

hoorah for pag
Nuffink wrong wiht manners is there

'Call people what you like.'

And what pag likes to call you is 'wanker'.

But no-one has said that the term spaz is acceptable. Not the OP or anyone else.

Others said that the words moron and idiot and stupid were unacceptable, these are words that many people use without giving it a second thought.

There is obviously a line somewhere, where that line is and why it is there and how it changes over time is an interetsing topic for discussion.

Not least to educate people who might discover that they are inadvertantly using words that others find offensive.

This always happens on these threads, everyone is so angry and shouty and bloody offensive, just as offensive as the things they are apparently offended by.

How can we ever get anywhere is people just call each other names? i thought the whole point of this thread was that it was not nice to call each otehr names.

Bravo Pagwatch

How is "you're a wanker" a top balanced response?

Why is there to be no discussion about all this? Why the anger?

I cannot see anyone on this thread who has said that people should go around saying "spaz". I have seen people asking whether otehr words are as offensive, so that they can avoid using them if necessary. That is a good thing, surely.

yay pag

If you can't see now why wanker is less strong than spaz then you never will.

I think the reason it becomes shouty, and I apologise for my shouty contribution, is that it is indeed pretty universal that most people think spazz and retard are unacceptable.
Instead of then agreeingthat most reasonable people concur , the arguement always extends very quickly into pedantic argeuments.

I am interested in the intellectual debate about where the line is as it goes, but I prefer to do so from the position of having established that a line exists.

The argeument that because it is difficult to define seems to provoke really quite nasty defenses of spazz on th egrounds thatthe line moves. I rarely hear people argue that because language around race is also flexible, that people should be allowed to use paki and anyone objecting is just prissy and restricting their freedoms.

That is why I think taking a braod view of how most affected people feel is not unreasonable.

And I tend to use sexual swear words when provoked because they are universal and do not pick on a minority as their reference point of ridicule.

I would probably be more sanguine were it not for the snorting giggling nudge nudge reactions on the last thread about this.

But I do apologise to those of you trying to have a thoughtful debate.
You are not the people I was reacting to

I think that everyone on this thread was in agreement that if there was a line, spaz would be some way over it and off into the distance.

I agree that it is hard to have a discussion about something close to you, especially when previous threads have gone a different way.

On the words front, there is also the idea that people in a group will use a word comfortably (knowingly) about themselves. Which doesn't mean it is OK for other people to use it, but muddies the waters.

And I'm of the opinion people using these words don't really need to have 'I'm a cunt' on their forehead. It becomes perfectly obvious when they open their mouths.

Why the anger? Because people have children who are directly affected by the use of these hateful,crass and unnecessary insults.

One could say that they aren't intended as insults but when another's state of being, is seen as such a terrible and undesirable thing,therefore implying that they're a lesser being, is used as playground taunt,and even by adults, it's difficult to regard it as anything other than offensive.

'Gay' is another example of this. Why is being gay considered such a negative thing that it's used as an insult?

Every time 'gay' or 'spaz' are used it feeds the idea which is already too common in society,that there's something wrong with being homosexual or being disabled,that they have less value than 'normal people'.

i feel it is totally inappropriate but also find these days that words like this have become so common place in our culture espcially teen culture that they don't really think about where the words come from;point in case: my daughter has a friend (7) who often says 'nonce' as a way of saying someone was being a bit stupid-this never seems to get corrected!

That's the problem though isn't it? That all too often we accept it as 'normal' and don't pull them up on it.

ISNT

fair enough.

I suspect ( although would be happy to be wrong) that if the thread continues the usual "what is wrong with retard, how dare you tell me what words I am allowed to use" bunch will appear - they like to beat that drum at every oppertunity.

I don't seek to be offended and there are many words commonly used without any intent to offend that I would ignore, or keep my reservations to myself, because I think common usuage and intent plays its part.

But just shrugging and saying 'well teenagers do this stuff' isn't really a way to deal with it - it merely indicates that as parents and mentors we don't care that much.
We seem to be able to stop our children saying racist terms without too much difficulty. We mamange to stop our sons from calling girls whore or slags with equal gusto.
I think if we pull a dictionary and get into debate when it comes to spazz then we are not conveying our dislike and non-acceptance of those words with the same conviction - and maybe we should question why that is.

Perhaps the everyday test should be which words would you be happy to shout if you were seated across from your sister/best friend holding her toddler with Downs syndrome?

If you are using words that would make you ashamed then perhaps you should stop. If you are using words that would make you feel awkward then perhaps those are the words to debate. If you have no question in your mind you either are already pretty reasonable in your use of languag or should have that tattoo I mentioned.

"We seem to be able to stop our children saying racist terms without too much difficulty. We mamange to stop our sons from calling girls whore or slags with equal gusto."

This is very true, the same effort isn't put into other offensive terms.

I must say I've never heard the name Joey used as an insult. How did that originate?