to think that Catholics shouldn't be Catholics if they find their leader so hateful?

[slightlystressed]

Thread about a thread I'm afraid.

Lots of catholics seem to condemn the Pope for his views on homosexuals, women, condoms in Africa etc.

But he is the leader of their church, and was elected by other cardinals who must share his views, they knew he was extremly conservative when the voted for him.

Why do catholics carry on being catholic when they seem to disagree with so many things their church preaches?

god my spelling is terrible!

Really Happysmiley? When was the last time that happened?

As I said before, you cannot make sweeping generalisations about Catholics because of a few.

oops i meant NEED to be considered (not 'not' to be!!)

Yes Freddo, I agree it needs to happen slowly, I did say that in my last couple of posts.

But surely the whole point of a pro life stance is that the foetus is a life and natural law prevents us from taking life or interfering with God's natural process? So what would make someone think it was then justified to take another's life in return for that? That is a Utilitarian approach and believe me, the Catholic Church does not teach a utilitarian approach.

Yes eleanora it was, but my main point is what you said was low, cruel, bigoted , offensive and plain wrong.

well then we are in Christian unity itsmeolard

itsmeolord, last year actually

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8077021.stm

Admittedly, hasn't happened for a good few months now, but perhaps would happen rather more if most abortion clinics didn't have armed guards at the door.

That isn't really your common or garden abortionist though is it. He was performing illegal abortions on babies over 22 weeks gestation, some of them healthy (obviously still not OK to kill him, but just making the point).

Well done Happysmiley, now go and google how many shootings happened in the US in the last year that were not related to a small group of extremists who are certainly not advocating catholic ideals.

itsmeolard?? Do i know you in real life Freddo?

If this is turning into a mumsnet debate on abortion I'm off. All I'll say is that Catholics believe that an unborn baby is a person with the same rights as anyone else so someone who has killed thousands of unborn babies... well, need I go on? However, as a catholic I do not believe in the death penalty, even for mass murder.

The pro-life arguement is fundamental to the catholic faith. I would go as far as to say you are not a catholic if you are not pro-life.

Now I'm not hanging around to be abused

Also, many many schools in the US have armed guards, tis a symptom of the gun culture, not an indication of an army of gun-toting blood thirsty catholics running rampage.

Oh and sorry lardy, nothing personal

Yes Johnny, killing doctors for performing abortions. There was the recent case of Scott Roeder in the US who shot and killed a doctor who was known to perform late abortions. A lot of the most active/aggressive pro-life groups are Evangelical Christian groups

No worries slim.

There will always be dissent at the powers that be in any system, organisation...whatever. That doesn't mean that people fundamentally turn away from what they believe in, it just means that they question the powers that be sometimes. That is healthy in my opinion.

You can't write off a whole faith because of the beliefs of the top man...the top man in something like the Catholic church is always going to be more 'fundamentalist' than most. I would imagine (not an expert) that generally that is what it takes to get to the top. Think about it, the big boss of a company is generally there because he sings the company's songsheet strongly and with pride?

Anyway, I'm wittering.

it's not a debate on abortion, I was just pointing out that given that a life is a life, Catholics are not acting in the name of their religion if they are taking it upon themselves to kill abortionists.
But I would be willing to bet it wasn't a Catholic who shot him.

Damnit. Debate moved on too quickly

I agree with that freddo you just cannot be a Catholic and agree with any form of abortion which I why I have always argued Blair is not a real Catholic as he not only refused to lower the outrageous abortion limit but also said he was 'pro choice'

Then again Blair would tell anyone anything, his soul is a vacuum of lies.

Evangelical Christian, so not Catholic then?

itsmeolord, I didn't say that all Christians (or Catholics) go round shooting people but simply responding to the statement that Chrisianity is the most liberal of the main religions.

I think it very much depends on the individual and usually the country in which that particular brand of the religion is practised. It is much better to be a Muslim woman in Turkey for example, than in Saudi. Equally, there are definitely some pretty illiberal Christians around.

strickly where do you stand on homosexuality, contraception, sex before marriage?

Agree completely StrictlyKatty.

And I say again, some forms of christianity may be liberal... Catholicism is NOT. And I for one am glad!

If you kill an "abortion doctor," do you go to heaven when you die?