to think that Catholics shouldn't be Catholics if they find their leader so hateful?

[slightlystressed]

Thread about a thread I'm afraid.

Lots of catholics seem to condemn the Pope for his views on homosexuals, women, condoms in Africa etc.

But he is the leader of their church, and was elected by other cardinals who must share his views, they knew he was extremly conservative when the voted for him.

Why do catholics carry on being catholic when they seem to disagree with so many things their church preaches?

Well I was just referring to the jokes thing that time, but I do know someone (some people) who can remove the pope and you've kind of said it yourself with "catholics will stop turning up at his Masses and he'll be just this old man with a few friends wondering where it all went wrong"

We've talked about why you and some others would find leaving this church difficult and when I'm not making points I do kind of see how difficult that must be.

Still I wince every time I hear people say that there are 'a billion catholics' (I think that might include 'Christians' but there are a huge number of Catholics) as though that proved the church must be right.

There are certainly not a billion (or even close) people who believe in and follow the catholic church rules. This number though is what gives the Pope his power and influence.

He may already be 'just this old man with a few friends' but with so many saying "oh I'm a catholic, but I just don't do the anti-gay, anti-contraception, etc things" it will continue to look as though much of the world approves of all these policies.

Oh and just a quick point about comparing the church to any other organization. I completely see why Christians don't see it that way, but of course to atheists it IS just another organization so you will not get people looking at it in the same way.

Fair point Onager. I guess to us it's not just an organisation, it's a way of life.

You could just as easily say that all Muslims who follow Mohammed are also women-hating, violence loving extremists. But that would be naive of you. I may think that he was a dodgy bloke and I certainly don't agree with a lot of what he's said, but I don't pigeon-hole Muslims in that way. I know that not all Muslims are extremists, I know the majority are peace-loving, intelligent and thoughtful.

Why can't it be the same here?

mayor quimby - I disagree with you on one point.

I do not think that papal infallibility is one of the fundamentals of Catholicism. The pope is only considered infallible when speaking ex cathedra, and this only applies to a very small number of statements, none at all from the present pope. With infallibility applying so infrequently, it hardly seems to be one of the fundamentals of the faith.

Rhubarb, my contempt for belief in stuff that isnt' there is not a personal attack on you - or a specific attack on Catholicism for that matter. I am all in favour of people working to change their institutions from within and would like to see a lot more Catholics/Christians/Sikhs/Muslims etc speaking out loudly against the misogyny and homophobia that is so often peddled by so-called representatives of their particular belief systems.
But when someone is demanding the right to reduce or take away other people's human rights in the name of a superstition, it becomes so much more important to say and keep saying 'Fuck off with your ridiculous superstitious bullshit that is irrelevant to the vast majority of people.' (ANd I use vast majority to include those who believe in a rival mythology as well as those who are free from religion).

"I know the majority are peace-loving, intelligent and thoughtful" I'm sure that's true and I don't particularly 'have it in for' catholics. It's the organizations I rant about and really only when they affect the society I live in.

Which means it's more likely to be CofE for their more direct involvement in this country.

Islam concerns me more because of the likelihood of it affecting me as things change here and obviously at the moment because of those (yes i know a minority) who are so keen to hate me for not being them.