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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Catholics shouldn't be Catholics if they find their leader so hateful?

281 replies

slightlystressed · 04/02/2010 11:23

Thread about a thread I'm afraid.

Lots of catholics seem to condemn the Pope for his views on homosexuals, women, condoms in Africa etc.

But he is the leader of their church, and was elected by other cardinals who must share his views, they knew he was extremly conservative when the voted for him.

Why do catholics carry on being catholic when they seem to disagree with so many things their church preaches?

OP posts:
ThisIsntOver · 04/02/2010 11:38

Mind your own business. No concern of yours.

We can all see what you're doing, by the way.

And I'm a Jew!

Original poster
slightlystressed · 04/02/2010 11:38

Oh I see, because Im not catholic then I can't be at all interested in anything to do with it?

I have been reading the thread about the Pope coming to England, if I wanted to bash a catholic I would have just joined that.

OP posts:
ArcticFox · 04/02/2010 11:41

Faith is an extremely personal and deep rooted thing. Just because you don't believe that the Pope is right on everything doesn't mean that you don't believe the central pillars of your faith and accept Jesus as your saviour. You can still believe in God if you don't agree with the Pope's interpretation of his teachings.

Religious belief is not something you can turn on and off. If you don't believe in God, it's hard to understand why people do, but I think we should all respect one another's right to have faith.

Why people have to be so disrespectful about people's beliefs on this (and other) forums is beyond me. I'm also interested to see that it's largely aimed at Christians, which is arguably the most liberal of the major religions.

EleanoraBuntingCupcake · 04/02/2010 11:43

'I'm also interested to see that it's largely aimed at Christians, which is arguably the most liberal of the major religions. ' yes i would probably argue with that.

RockbirdandHerSpork · 04/02/2010 11:43

Blu, because we have done this to death about three days ago and it turned into the usual Catholic bashing. Do you really think that if I explained it clearly and calmly that people would think, oh yeah, we're wrong, Catholics are decent people after all . Like hell they would. People seem unable to accept that you can be part of a religion and have a mind of your own. I'm Catholic in case you hadn't worked it out . However, I'm not stupid enough to (for example) hold anti-gay demonstrations in my spare time, which is what people think all Catholics do for fun. Our church has about half a dozen key figures who are openly gay, no one bats an eyelid. Except that's not what people want to hear because then there couldn't be this hatred towards the Catholic church. So people prefer to believe the hype.

I think the Jewish religion has it well worked out actually. Different synagogues depending on your interpretation of the faith.

But I stand by my assertion that the op was not worded in a way to encourage debate.

RockbirdandHerSpork · 04/02/2010 11:44

ThisIsntOver, have I got that right about the synagogues or just made an arse of myself?

ShauntheSheep · 04/02/2010 11:44

The Catholic Chursh is about more than one man even if he is the Pope. He may be the leader of the Church at the moment but others will follow and the church will change as it has done many times over the centuries.

Why would someone give up their whole belief system and way of life jsut because they didnt believe one thing that one person says even if that person is the leader of the church at that particular time?

itsmeolord · 04/02/2010 11:44

I am a catholic. I do not give up my faith in God because of one man and his views.
I can be a catholic and be open about disagreeing with our current pope's views on certain matters.
I have had sex outside of marriage, I was a single parent, I "live in sin", I have had sex with a woman.
None of those mean that I cannot or should not be a catholic. As far as I am concerned, it is up to us to educate from within and change the catholic outlook to something that is far more realistic in todays society.
If I abandon my faith I see it as giving up.

Hope that answers your question.
The op was not well put and does come across rather badly.

Disenchanted3 · 04/02/2010 11:45

I no longer class myself catholic for this very reason.

My children attend a catholic school though, but I don't really have a choice as all 3 locals are catholic.

Blu · 04/02/2010 11:47
EleanoraBuntingCupcake · 04/02/2010 11:48
RockbirdandHerSpork · 04/02/2010 11:48

Well then Dis, it doesn't say much about your commitment to the faith if it's that easily swayed. Which is fine and up to you of course. But for some people, such as myself, the religion goes deeper than that.

And don't get me started on schools, I really will blow a gasket.

onagar · 04/02/2010 11:49

I've said this before, but surely a Catholic is a Christian who believes in the particular variety of Christianity called Catholicism. So if you have faith in god, but don't like the Catholic bits then by definition you are a Christian not a catholic.

Disenchanted3 · 04/02/2010 11:50

Rock, I did not say I have turned away from God, I said I refuse to be known as Catholic, very different.

ArcticFox · 04/02/2010 11:50

EleanoraBuntingCupcake

Ok, so which of the major religions would you argue is more liberal?

Btw- Buddism is not a religion.

RockbirdandHerSpork · 04/02/2010 11:51

No, they're not really the same thing. I would have said the same thing until I married DH who is C of E and I was amazed at how many differences there are.

The biggest example I can think of is the attention given to the Blessed Virgin in the Catholic church. C of E barely give her the time of day according to DH. I don't know what Christians spend their time doing without her to adore

Disenchanted3 · 04/02/2010 11:52

The catholic church have disgraced themselves too many times to have any integrity left IMO. The whole church isn't about God or worships it revolves around the old, biggoted, predjudeced dinosaurs that run it.

RockbirdandHerSpork · 04/02/2010 11:52

Fair enough Dis, that was badly worded. I meant Catholicism rather than God.

JohnnyTwoHats · 04/02/2010 11:53

There are several active (on readers rota, sing in choir, EMHC and so on) members of my parish who are openly gay. No idea if they are practising homosexuals, none of my business really and I guess neither is it anyone elses. We are all sinners in one way or another and that sin is between the individual and God (and possibly the priest in the confessional). None of them are treated any differently as far as I can see, by any of the clergy or by any of the congregation.
But we have a fairly liberal parish priest who, for example, firmly believes that we will see women priests in our lifetime.
No idea what his view on the current Pope is, but I would be willing to bet he doesn't share all his opinions. He wants to keep his job though, so no doubt he will toe the line and wait for a new Pope to change things again.

The Pope is not the be all and end all of the Catholic Church. And it is simplistic to say that it is just the Pope and transubstantiation which set it apart from Anglicanism.

Original poster
slightlystressed · 04/02/2010 11:54

Thanks for the more considered responses. I repeat I am not up for catholic basing. Sorry if my OP hit a raw nerve, but it was out of genuine interest.

OK I understand you cant switch off your beliefs, but if you continue to attend a church where the top ranking officials have such different opinions yourself, how are you letting them know you find their views offensive?

OP posts:
hbfac · 04/02/2010 11:54

Was going to write something coherent, but actually find myself slightly depressed.

Where to start?

With the affective bonds and the life-world experience that religion-as-culture and life-narrative affords?

With the fact that the Church, and a religion, exceeds its representatives?

With the fact that, even to phrase this question, the OP is so far from having reflected on her her own position vis a vis identity that I really do wonder where a conversation could start?

sweetkitty · 04/02/2010 11:55

I have found that there seems to be an unwritten rule about Catholic bashing, i.e. it's fine to poke fun at the religion especially the no contraception/anti-homosexuality parts of it.

Surely there are other religions which have similar views, I don't know enough about them but what about Muslims for example? We don't get loads of Muslim bashing threads on here, isn't homosexuality wrong there too?

FreddoBaggyMac · 04/02/2010 11:56

We've started a new business in our house, we've designed t shirts which say 'The Pope is on his way - lets do some gay bashing!'

You'd be surprised how many we have already sold

Seriously, do people who criticise the Pope have any idea about who he is other than what has been spoonfed to them by the very narrowminded propaganda presented by the British media?

Have a look at some of the other GOOD things the Pope has said and the Catholic church has done if you REALLY want a gliimmer of an understanding why some of us are glad to be Catholic... alternatively if you want some mindless mudslinging put an OP like this one on mumsnet!

ThisIsntOver · 04/02/2010 11:56

I think Muslims listen to crazy voices in their heads. I find them and their beliefs ridiculous. They have disgraced themselves and have no integrity. Is there a special thread where I can bash-a-Muslim please?

Now, I wonder if my post will get deleted...

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 04/02/2010 11:58

YANBU
I don't understand how you can believe that the Pope is wrong about lots of things, such as contraception, homosexuality, AIDS prevention, and yet continue to be a Catholic. The whole point of Catholicism is that you are guided by the Pope, the cardinals, priests etc. To disagree with lots of what he says makes you not to much a catholic really.
But then if you want to call yourself a catholic as a cultural label than that's NOMB.

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