to consider aa a dangerous cult?

[Kirkers]

I am ready to be attacked by cult members.

I have read 'theorangepapers' online which is very well researched, and 'twelve step horror stories' (also available to read online) and they prove to me (on top of my own experience) that aa does much more harm than good. In every proper, conrolled experiment aa produces worse results than any other treatment, including doing nothing. It is unquestionably a cult(Google, 'is aa a cult'). Yet 93% (I am not sure about that figure, sorry) of treatment centres follow the same model. That would be the £10 billion treatment industry.

I hope this isn't too off topic for mumsnet. They do involved children too. It is awful.

I first came to mumsnet following the Julie/Jake Myerson thread. The detective work that went on was phenonmenal. Is there anyone out there breastfeeding or too pregnant to move who could look into the orange papers and tell me I'm not Erin bigchest Eronovich.

This is an absolutely genuine request for feedback from people who are prepared to consider the actual black and white evidence of this extraordinarily powerful organisation.

Thanks.

Repeated posting of the same info is at best not needed and at worst making you sound like a loon run123

Not everyone goes back through the thread. Important info for UK.

Run123

That link is actually about predators in the US and Canada - it just refers to a cautionary paper written about AA in the UK.

Oh, and it's published in Australia.

"People in the UK listen more to their doctor to quit drinking than by going to AA!"

Not quite what it says - this link does not say anything about the effectiveness of AA, only the perceived attractiveness of UK AA.

Try reading before linking, it will help us all.

I have never actually encountered or experienced AA as a 'dangerous cult' here in the UK, honestly. Have been to meetings and met some really kind people.
I know that there are some meetings that are a bit dodgy and are really big book bashing, but that's it. I don't recognise the AA that run is on about. Are you writing a thesis or doing research or something?

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/mar/10/alcoholism-treatment-smart-recovery-programme

Here is an interesting article about an alternative to those that are looking at choices in recovery.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/apr/28/alcoholics-anonymous-12-step-religion

There are people in the UK that share my viewpoint.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/apr/28/alcoholics-anonymous-12-step-religion

Sorry-meant to make it a direct link.

I'm sure there are. There are also people who believe they have been abducted by aliens. "Somebody agrees with me" is still not the statistical proof you assured us exists! Now cough it up. [Awaits yet another link from same tired old websites.]

Maybe we ought to let this thread die a death. After all everytime we reply or debate this issue, this thread gets bumped and then it gives more ammunition to run. Isn't that what they want...we're just playing into their hands

this thread is mesmerising

Are any of the anti AA posters big fans of teh Steiner schools because the posts defintiely have the same ring of insanity conviction?

Thanks run for the links,I found them very helpful.
They confirm how I feel as well.I would recommend people read them.

An www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/crown-breaks-down-describing-rape-victims-devastation-89494252.html

Article about a woman was abused at the hands of a man she met in AA.

Kew; do you think Steiner is a cult? I wanted to do it but I couldn't commit to the total way of life. I do think it is brilliant for childers but we would have had to move to Hertfordshire. Some friends of mine have just had their firstborn and asked about it and I described it to them as a cult, but a positive cult, but a bit cultlike in the way it involves a complete commitment.

Interesting thread.

Is AA Effective? Wall Street Journal vs Cochrane Collaboration
stats.org/stories/2006/is_aa_effective_oct27_06.htm

Let me start by saying this:

A couple of good things about AA IMO,
The idea that one alcoholic can help another alcoholic....and....
Once you have the first drink, the compulsion to drink more is very strong.
(Not sure if this started with AA or adapated elswhere, but it led to scientific findings).

Other than that, I found NOTHING else helpful with AA. This was my experience, others I know have felt the same way. Also, I found AA DAMAGING to my state of mind. I was told that I needed to go to AA if I wanted to stay sober and that if I didn't stay sober I would die (that was rather cultish). My doctors (obvious pro AA) also told me this. Also, my counselors. I kept going back, trying to work something (steps) that didn't help me, all because I was told this by numerous people. My misgivings were opposed greatly. I thought I was the only person that felt this way and started to think it was only my fault. AA's confirmed this to me (that was cultish). No one said, "perhaps there is something else out there for you".

Sometimes I left meetings crying, with more anxiety than when I came. This led to some binges.

The disease concept rattled me, and I started to beleive I was powerless even though I found out later that this wasn't the case at all. I was the only one that could keep myself from drinking. God wasn't and didn't. And a higher power (a power that wasn't me) wasn't going to either.

The chanting during meetings were cultish.

There are definitely good, caring people out there. In and out of AA. But there are bad people too. I was in a place where my defenses were down. I was told to trust and to listen and not to think. I did this, because I became willing to do what everyone around me told me I had to do. This led to a few nasty people in meetings harassing me. Also, other bad things. If it was a trusting place, I wouldn't have been told I was safe. Yes, I was told I was safe. Some meetings go bad. Some people are bad. It's a fact. Some co-workers (bosses) can be bad but there are now laws in place to help displace the countering dominant balance. I want that in AA so others don't get hurt.

Do we a load of new people or just one with various names trying force people to believe his or her point of view.

Whether the AA is a 'cult' or not surely the point is a lot of people find them very helpful when giving up alcohol. The same as other people find other sorts of agencies/groups helpful.

Most of my clients with alcoholism prefer the intuitive recovery programme- hope this helps (no religious affiliations in that one)

oh dear! i nearly spat me tea out! CHANTING!!??? where on earth have you been going? beleive me, i cant see many alike brits, particuarly the ones i know, willingly chanting anything other than football slogans!!

"This led to some binges."

surely, if you are mistress of your own destiny (because you don't need AA) and AA is pure, empty faith healing then what happened in AA couldn't "lead to binges"? you don't need AA or anything like it because you choose when and when not to drink, isn't that so? So how could AA "make" you drink? Or do you drink every time someone or something upsets you - in which case, where is this sobriety you have achieved outside AA?

let's have a little consistency if nothing else, please!

jesus, you do make me laugh . And , you have dragged me out of my comfortable lurking position.

As always, I totally support what MIFLAW and jesus are saying. Only they put it so much better than I would.

Chanting

I heard dangerous chanting this morning at my daughter's nursery school - a hypnotic rant about wheels on a bus going round.

The children are also told "not to go outside" and even have to ask help from their "key-workers" to use the toilet!

The whole thing is a money-making venture - parents pay £100s of pounds a week for the privilege of attending. Anyone who wants to leave has to give one month's "notice".

Yet there is no evidence at all that these children are any happier, cleverer or even taller than children that stay at home - with their parents!

Is AA running nurseries now? How can the press and Ofsted stay silent on this multi-million pound "care" industry?

We need to be told.

According to this, which claims to use AA's own statistics, AA is in decline anyway.

stinkin-thinkin.com/2011/01/10/aas-own-stats-show-slow-demise/