I want to ask this somewhre where I might get a range of responses so not asking in SN, ismore a would you agree with this lady thing than a AIBU. Sn kids in mainstream education.

[Peachy]

Someone today whom I respect immensely and regard as kind, told me that in her opinion children with disabilities like dyslexia etc (so ampresuming the whole gamut of SEN - SN) shoudln't be in MS schools because of the effect on the other kids.

She is someone who though not employed by school has access to DS1 (ASD) and ds2 (SEN not sure what) during school time in a volunteer role. I pretty much trust her.

DS3 attends an SNU placement, but I do wonder how many people really share that attitude. My experience and belief tells me that different kids benefit from different settings so parents should have final say (it took me 2 years to get ds3 his place, and I face a battle now to get ds1 into SN Comp placement).

?

5in, ds3is like that also. peopleadore having him around,he really is happy pleasant company,kind if not particularly empthic. I think the kindness is learned but cannot be sure.

I do wonder what someone has to do to be banned to mn.

Thankyou

Ok well I've though about this some more.As an accountant who likes to think in terms of figures, my initial opinion was that by educating all the disruptive kids together in one 'sin bin' you would achieve maximum benefit to the maximum number of pupils.

However from the other side ,it does seem a bit harsh to write off this minority of disruptive kids like that.i can see they might behave the way they do for many reasons -abuse bereavement or even finding the schoolwork too difficult/too easy , and I can see that they could easily be pulled into a downward spiral.

There has to be some middle ground surely where all children can access easily the benefits of both specialist and mainstream resources in a way tailored to the needs of each child ?

He sounds adorable Peachy.
Everyone always comments how polite my ds2 is, and how sweet he is. He'll always ask someone if they are alright when he greets them (if he isn't roaring at them) but that is because it is echolalia and learnt from us.

PP in theory 'tailored to met the needs of each child' is the education system we supposedly already have in place.

Reality is a different story.

Ok well this thread has been an education certainly.I am not sure I really 'get' properly what autism is still but certainly understand more.

One last word from me Peachy make sure you advise the lady you mention in your OP,whose views are A LOT more exterme than mine, not to come on MN .She'd be lynched.

PP and get yourself up the school complaining, not that you want these boys 'removed' but demand answers not only for the sake of your dd, but you could also help these boys.

1. If the school are aware they have limited social skills, what are they doing about it, how are planning on helping them to overcome it?

1. What help/support are the school going to put in place not only for your dd, but for the 2 boys to prevent it from happening?

1. Dont be fobbed off with, we are doing all we can, as they are clearly not. If these boys require adult supervision to prevent them from doing what they do, say so and while the adult is preventing, they could also be teaching the boys how to handle situations better.

Princess. You said
"fThere has to be some middle ground surely where all children can access easily the benefits of both specialist and mainstream resources in a way tailored to the needs of each child ? "

There is.
It is called mainsteam with one to one support. (via a trainned SENCO.)

It is exactly the system which should be in place in your school but which is not being implemented properly and so is failing your child and the children supposed to be being supported by it.

You have just described the system that you came on here to complain about

The problem is not the system. The problem is poor implementation and poor funding.

People with issues mild enough/complex enough/ specific enough to allow them to access the academic sylabus but who need help directing and moulding any issues with behaviour, attention, physical impairment, reading issues, social issues - should be sitting in a class, learning with their peers but with a guiding hand ready to help them with their non academic difficulties.

Ironic eh.

My eldest son happens to go to one of the most highly regarded academic schools in the country ( top 10 in most top schools lists).
He suspects that several of his peers heading off to Oxbridge have issues conmected with ASD and, once they are in a supportive, stimulating enviroment where their abilities are valued and the differences are absoloutely accepted - they often go on to be leaders in science and industry.

DS1 often laughs at the unpleasant NT kids who sneer at my DS2.
" laugh your arses off while you can - you will be working for his mates one day"

I am inclined to think he is right

and having dealy with Accountant liability issues and met many of the Big Four executives over the years , that is a profession with a particularly high ASD population. Probably only slightly less so than actuaries...

Pag

hey Gibbon , you lovely, lovely thing

I am not around for a bit ( just hectic few days). Keep an eye on affairs at the hall. You know how dirty they all can be - and with no serving wench it could be revolting in no time...

[snogs]

PP Throughout the thread, lots of people have suggested that you complain and by complaining not only would you be helping your dd, but also the 2 boys.

Do you feel it is a good solution to your problem?

PP you said you wre struggling with what autism is.me too,and I just finished the diagnostics module of an MA in it PMSL!

When the triad says difficulty with peoplethink absendce of,it isn;t that,it is difficulty with in terms of appropraite. So an ASD stereotype is a quiet introverted child who won''t approach anyone, ds3 in fact is outgoing,overly sociable, bounds up to people. Same issue- with sociability- different perspective.

Try and think of it like this: every person with ASD starts with the person- their normal temperaments, ideas, strengths etc. ASDpalces a filter over that. In a fewpeople the filter is so thick it can be ahrd tosee the person underneath and you have to look very ahrd.With most people what you see is a varying mix of the ASD and the peson.

Does that help? It'snot bang on accurate but sort of.

Will do Pag you gorgeous creature you [snogs and gropes]

Love your bit about accountants Pag. I am one and with an ASD son. I work for other accountants too and the majority of them are ASD or have very strong traits.

Not sure what my son will be when he is grown up; so far he wants to be an Xbox game designer. At 11 he was invited by Microsoft to trial one of their games before they released it as his capabilities are awesome with regard to programming, how a game should function etc. He's very sociable too, you can hear him outside on the street when he is linked up with his mates playing!

I didn't see pp's post before it was deleted

I agree with what others have said though. If some child in any of my dc's class was ripping up their work every day and hurting them, I would be at school until they solved the problem. In fact, ds did have a problem with a child in his class (as did other children) and the school put in some extra social skills lessons for his classes and monitored said boy a bit closer.

Pp, I would feel the school was failing your child in this instance.

peachy, it's something that really gets to me. We have 2 very close friends with children with quite severe special needs issues (in one case a life limiting one). What reduces us to tears is that despite the fact that these parents already have extra challenges in their lives (that until you have a child with these conditions or a life limiting condition I imagine no-one else can understand), that on top of those challenges, they then have to go and fight to get help. Constantly list what their child CAN'T do, go to committees and put their case across again and again and again. I know these all exist to stop the (no doubt) small minority of people from taking the piss but even so, to keep on fighting over and over again on top of everything else must be incredibly hard and dispiriting . Just makes me grrr that it can't just be a LITTLE easier for them.

grin

Just thought I'd add my tuppence worth. My DS has SN but no agression issues.

Please read to the end as this probably isn't what you think when you start to read.....

He is cognitively bright and physically fragile. His anatomy is such that should someone kick/punch him in the tummy he vcery possible will die from a liver bleed!

He started school in August and the first few week were fraught with problems. My DS came home telling me he's been hit by this little boy on 3 occasions in 1 week. The first time I raised it with my son's (ful-time) 1-1 and complained that she had made no mention of it to me at the end of school, her respnose was that I hadn't to worry. That it wasn't bullying because the wee boy was hitting everyone in the class not just my DS!! I was furious that she thought it was ok for all children to be assaulted on a daily basis!!

Move on a few days, another incident. I queried how my Ds could be being assaulted as he has 1-1 for every minute he's in schoolspecificaly to keep him safe! I pointed out that the issues seemed to be happening at specific times and suggested that maybe the wee boy was finding the sensory atmosphere at those times difficult. I even sugeested way of helping the little boy at those times so that he could manage.

Another incident .... by this time my husband wanted me to pull DS out of school ( bear in mind a punch or kick to the tummy could kill my DS). I complained louder this time and expressed my cocern for my son's life........I also spoke to the little boy's mum who was really struggling and doing her best to get support for her little boy. At every stage I explained to the 1-1, head teacher and the little boy's mum that I wasn NOT angry with him. He was struggling and obiously was really anxious at certain times and I felt really bad that the school continued to put him in these situations. I was supportive to mum and explained that I hoped by complaining as I had that the little boy would get the support he so obviously deserved and needed.

Phone call from HT re another incident(in spite of 1-1 being in place by that time). I explained that I would not tolerate another incident of assault of my DS. She told me I should use the word assault - what would she call it if I slapped her in the face?? I explained that regardless of the little boy's intent, my DS experienced it as assault. He only understand that he's been hurt and it's not nice. End of.I also explained again that I was angry at school staff not the little boy. He can't help it if he feels anxious and adults keep putting him in situations which he clearly can't manage.

Result is the little boy now has the support he needs, my DS considers this little boy to be a friend now although he knows that he finds some situations tricky. I have also taught my DS some strategies to keep himself safe i.e. when the children have to line up, if the little boy is at the front of the line my DS goes to the back and vice versa, because this is a tricky time for the little boy.

I have kept my DS as safe as I can while actively encouraging him to befriend the little boy.

MS is not for everyone. Many children thrive in MS, some do not. Regardless of labels of disability, children's educational needs should be looked at individually and they should have the appropriate support to encourage them to reach their full potential.

EVERY CHILD IS UNIQUE AND IMO THEY ALL HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS!!!!

xxxx