I want to ask this somewhre where I might get a range of responses so not asking in SN, ismore a would you agree with this lady thing than a AIBU. Sn kids in mainstream education.

[Peachy]

Someone today whom I respect immensely and regard as kind, told me that in her opinion children with disabilities like dyslexia etc (so ampresuming the whole gamut of SEN - SN) shoudln't be in MS schools because of the effect on the other kids.

She is someone who though not employed by school has access to DS1 (ASD) and ds2 (SEN not sure what) during school time in a volunteer role. I pretty much trust her.

DS3 attends an SNU placement, but I do wonder how many people really share that attitude. My experience and belief tells me that different kids benefit from different settings so parents should have final say (it took me 2 years to get ds3 his place, and I face a battle now to get ds1 into SN Comp placement).

?

DS1 has SN, he is in main stream school, he has the social skills of a dead fish but an IQ higher then most of the teachers, if anything the "normal" kids are the ones to hold him back

Every child should be given the option of MS. I can see why other parents would not want a child who was a risk to their child. Dd2 (ASD) will be starting MS in September, i am worried sick that she will not get the help she deserves, Dd1 (AS) goes to the same MS school and is doing great, settled well and the staff love her to bits.

VicarInaTuTu- its great to hear your story and i really hope dd1 will sit A levels (possibly dd2 as well).

My dc attend school with small resource units. ATM the children in these resource units all have autism-spectrum, ADHD or dyslexia/dyspraxia issues (AFAIK). They all spend varying proportions of their day in the resource and in the mainstream class.

I can say without the least hesitation or doubt, that the presence of the resource units and of the children with SN has been nothing but a benefit to my dc. Ds1 is G&T, and the resource unit has been used to help him with socialisation issues. Attitudes and techniques used in the resource unit are used throughout the school, and all the children benefit. They also learn tolerance and understanding.

DS has dyslexia, but there are children who don't , in his class, who are disruptive and more of an issue. it is so ridicolous and sweeping to think that all children with all types of SN and LD will have a negative impact on every class they are in.

My DD has a child with autism in his class and I would say that from her point of view the experience has been entirely beneficial ie, in terms of teaching her tolerance of difference, widening her social experiences etc.

I think its very much an individual thing I have always been a supporter of SN children in mainstream education,and I think its great that children learn alongside others of varying capabilities as when I was a child I never saw a disabled person they were all shut away .

However my v good friend has a son who has autism and other difficulties and whilst hes always been in mainstream school with support hes now at an age where his 'differences' show,hes finding work hard and is socially at a disadvantage due to his immaturity.

We have had many discussions about this and we have now come to the belief that he should go to a school that caters for children with differing needs - to have him in a mainstream school is having him run in a race he will never 'win' any help/support he needs has to be 'investigated' whereas in the 'special' school there are facilities there to help him cope they have onsite S.A.L.T they have access to reflections etc and to be truly honest the pressure of GCSE is far too much for a boy struggling to understand himself and in the new school he would be supported to develop skills he has and other skills that are neccesarily covered in a GCSE syllabus.

For this boy (and his family) 'special' education is definitely needed.

I should clarify, in terms of teaching my DD, not the child with autism (and DD certainly does not think of him in that way, he is just one of her friends).

I do agree that a child with SEN should get the right support in a mainstream class. Actually my son (who is autistic) has a full time 1-to-1, and quite apart from taking the teacher's time away from the other kids, he very rarely actually gets ANY of the teacher's time and is fact taught 99% of the time by his 1-to-1. I don't mind that, as the 1-to-1 is great, but I'm just saying it's probably not what those with prejudice against SEN kids in mainstream would expect to hear.

I have also spent 100s of hours making sure my autistic son is not badly-behaved at school - far more time than I have spent teaching my "normal" child to behave, as the behavioural challenges to surmount are so much higher with an autistic child. Sometimes I wish that the parents of "normal" children , who have been lucky enough to have the gift of speech and understanding way beyond my son's, would also put some effort into the bad behaviours of their kids. It's not always the case that it's the SEN kids disrupting the class, you know! There are some right little "normal" so-and-so's in both my kids' classes! In fact all injuries sustained thus far in my kids' school careers have come courtesy of "normal", aggressive kids.

SN covers such a wide range of situations and, in general, I think there can be a huge benefit to both the child with SN and the other children in a MS school from SN children being part of that school.

I do think it is something that needs to be managed appropriately with the interests of the children at the centre to make sure that overall it is a positive situation for all involved.

i think that with the right support some kids with SEN are fine in mainstream. its getting the right support thats the difficult bit.

like Goblinchild says - (and she is a teacher and mum of aspie!) the kids who are often the biggest pain in the backside are those with God delusions and no SENs.

so i think your friend Peachy is being unreasonable. each child on their own merits id say.

VicarInaTuTu - sorry to hear of your experience

Peachy - I think there is a lot to be gained by both the 'normal' children & some of the SN children when they are schooled together. However, some SN children are too disruptive and when either the resources are not provided to deal with this, or regardless of the resources available this is not able to be 'controlled' then it it not beneficial to all the children in that class - in which case a more suitable environment needs to be found for the SN child.

Not all SN children benefit from MS schooling and thus the choice should be there - to be made by both the parents and the schools.

I would not class someone with Dyslexia as 'SN' as such, just requiring some additional help or the whole class to be taught in-line with those needs.

thesecondcoming, not heartless at all, perfectly logical and beneficial to the SN child, as well as his classmates, as he will get the extra emotional and SN support he needs.
SN kids are all different, and those without special needs are all different.
every single one should be helped to get the most out of education that they can.
good thread topic

TheZSecond I amnot sure if that was tome?

DS1islike that,he is aggressive and I have been threatened and have had aprents kmnocking onmy door (scary).

I would have gladly palced him in a LRC at any stage, but have never been able due to LEA red tape. he gets 10 hours 1-1. I want him to go to aLRU at 11 (he is in yr 5) but do not know if I can get a palce for hum.

Dangerous and harmful behaviour, hether SN related or not,needs the right supporet- but this was expressed as a blanket thing, and as dyslexia was spec.mentioned- well I amnotaware that dyslexia is generally related to that sort of behaviour?

I will be mortified and gutted if anyone says something like this to me when dd starts MS primary school next year! She has mild physical difficulties (no dx) and is likely to need some extra support. She positively thrives on trying to keep up with her NT peers - this is what brings on her development.

Like a pp said earlier, there are so many children with some form of SN - what would MS schools consist of if we took all those kids out??

I'm with Goblinchild when she says it seems to be the NT kids with arrogance and no respect for others who cause the most difficulty for teaching staff at my ds's school.

As someone has already said there are plenty of kids without SN who cause far more disruption than those who do.

Smartarses, spoilt princessess, agressive know it alls, disinterested wag wannabes etc etc.

How my little boy could cause more trouble than them because he cannot always understand what is going on is beyond me...

They are going to hold him back because he needs the attention of the teaching staff, if they are constantly distracted by a child who is used to being the centre of everyone's universe how is he going to learn?

Since when did SN = disruptive behaviour anyway. How on earth did your friend work out that a child with dyslexia would bring a whole class down?

My view is that the more varied and reflective of society the class is, the richer and more rounded my child will become. Assuming support is available and appropriate for all the children.

I want her to see that children are different, that people have things that result in certain behaviours or needs. Afterall she might one day be in the same shoes, or have a family member in those shoes. Perhaps me, or her child.

The idea of a class full of standard definition normal, whatever way you look at normal, is my idea of an unsuitable place for my child.

Ours is an academic church school too, and as such I expect them to be inclusive, supportive and nuturing, aiming to get the best out of everyone. Like anywhere I guess.

Do you know that one thing my little autistic boy will never be is a bully? He will also never be spiteful, or jealous, or belittle another child, or mock them for their accent/class/money/race/colour hair, or be sarcastic, or lord it over others when he gets better marks in a test, or because mummy has a better car, he'll never be a snob, he'll never answer back to the teacher...the list goes on. He may not talk as much as his normal classmates, or read and write, but I think his brand of innocent enjoyment of life, with no regard for peer pressure, can possibly teach the other kids a great deal.

Exactly. Sadly the assumption is that some one who has something extra will be a drain. Never an addition.

Pah.

surely, if a child needs, say, additional help, then so long as that is provided other kids don't suffer at all?

There are kids with no SN at all who are very difficult to teach - should they be exited for using up too much teacher time too?

Something extra - as in some extra support for whatever reason.

my oldest child has diagnosed adhd,learning difficulties and behavioral probs,he was kept in mainstream school against what i thought was for the best,he did disrupt all his classes he was hard to care for and mainstream school failed him no two ways about it,he didnt achieve academically anything which i kept asking why put him into that pressure group in the first place,i have another child who is showing signs of some sort of behavioral issues which i whole heartedly think they will succeed in mainstream school ,will do well academically,and most of all be happy in mainstream school they just need a little more support than most,so i think just like the child when i was at school needed extra time to be able to speak because of a chronic stammer,some children able bodied without sn still need that little extra and some children should go to a special needs school because their needs are far too great for mainstream school to cope with. now getting that balance right is a whole other thread!!

Depends on the child and the SN. Although an inappropriate placement affects the child with SN far more than the other kids in the class. So your woman I'd wrong there. Think perhaps she chose slightly the wrong audience when discussing certain aspects of this with you??? (not sure what posesses people sometimes)

Luckily ds1 will never have to set foot near a mainstream school again. I would tie myself to railings to prevent it. He needs an entirely different education to nt kids - in his SLD school he's getting it.

Must admit that it makes me quite proud of this country that we have such an inclusive education system - it's not perfect, but it's way better than in other countries, where SN kids are thrown into little-better-than asylums still, and considered uneducable. And it also makes me quite proud of our STATE school system, as believe me the private schools are not queueing up to take in SEN kids (or, as they would see it, muck up their league table positions!)

I think a lot of people have this attitude. children with special needs are ok to be in mainstream, as long as their child isn't 'affected' in any way.

Every parent thinks of their child first. I have come to accept that nobody is looking to do my kids any favours and I have to fight for them, and everyone else will be doing the same.

I had one bloke at the school gate saying how nice it was for the other kids to have my children in the school and then he went on to mumble something about but it's important to make sure that the other children aren't disrupted and I think he had something he was hinting at but my children aren't disrupting anything and I lost interest and started thinking about shoes.