I want to ask this somewhre where I might get a range of responses so not asking in SN, ismore a would you agree with this lady thing than a AIBU. Sn kids in mainstream education.

[Peachy]

Someone today whom I respect immensely and regard as kind, told me that in her opinion children with disabilities like dyslexia etc (so ampresuming the whole gamut of SEN - SN) shoudln't be in MS schools because of the effect on the other kids.

She is someone who though not employed by school has access to DS1 (ASD) and ds2 (SEN not sure what) during school time in a volunteer role. I pretty much trust her.

DS3 attends an SNU placement, but I do wonder how many people really share that attitude. My experience and belief tells me that different kids benefit from different settings so parents should have final say (it took me 2 years to get ds3 his place, and I face a battle now to get ds1 into SN Comp placement).

?

In this smallish town my 18 yr old DS1 who is ASD can walk around, go to shops, catch the train to go to college and I am confident that, if he had a problem, there are enough people around who remember him from the 5 years he spent in the mainstream primary school and the 8 years we have lived here since he went to a special school who would step in and help him. He is a member of the community and I believe (perhaps naively) that he is valued as such.

I should also point out that it was the "roughest" kids who were kindest to him at school and the cleverest, most privileged ones who would come out with the "my mum thinks Junior Battery shouldn't be in our school..."

Inclusion in school is the first step. Now lets debate the trickier problem of inclusion in employment. The lack of opportunities for adults with learning disablities is shocking.

It is shocking bettery.
I also think the fact that people with LDs have a worse life expectancy is tragic too

I read PPs post as being ironic ?

One of my friends said as much to me - she was pissed off a deaf kid was "getting all the attention in the class". I have an Asperger's ds (but she doesn't know that's his diagnosis). I tried to explain that it might actually good for "perfect" kids like hers to learn compassion etc for the not so blessed (as she sees it).

What I really wanted to say was:

FFS! So your kid gets bumped on the head by a bus tomorrow and loses his hearing. How would you feel if he was also chucked out of school?

There are a lot of parents in this world who would step on your kid's head to get theirs further up the ladder. V sad.

Tree, so sorry to hear about your uncle.

PP, you really are living in a little pink princess bubble aren't you. I hope your previous post was meant to be sarcastic? Do you honestly think that all people with Sn are violent?

Riven Is there any chance that new pathways will develop now or is there a time period in which it happens if it is going to happen IYSWIM? Dance club sounds fun - can I go Does she have a helper who holds her so she candance out of her wheelchair? That's what you need - people who are willing to support your DC's disability not shy away from it. DS goes to Tumble Tots (recommended by phsyio) and he has a 1:1 helper there - they've been fab!

I was at GOSH today with ds with cp, aged 9, sadly in his case, no chance of any new pathways, we had a big conversation No idea if that varies from case to case tho.

Cheers 5 and madwoman. His eyes are nearly better and he's less sore now.

They go the young man, and the knife. So that is a big positive. Freaked out uncle having to go to police station and make statements etc. He did it though, and did his best. He has a photographic memory and can tell you what day the 8th of March 1973 was - so he had no trouble relating the series of events.

Young mugger must have been sadly let down, uncle only had his few quid. Wouldn't dream of a mobile etc, he's into record players.

oh tree - hope they can sort out taxis. it would be terrible if work was denied as well as the freedom to use public transport as a result.

Victoriascrumptious-NIMBY springs to mind. Where should the line be drawn and who decides? If you are looking for a school with banding and streaming, you may still have MS schools that have SN dc that are academic and challenging. The two are not mutally exclusive. My ds dx ADHD and Aspergers Syndrome has severe challenging behaviour but is very bright. He went to MS primary, but cos of his social and emotional needs WE fought the LEA tooth and nail to get him a specialist placement for secondary school. The LEA could not/would not see past his academic ability-they would not see our ds as a "whole" person.
Peachy-did you really mean what you said about your son being an example to the NT dc "above" the dc with ADHD who was disruptive?(sorry, clumsy choice of word).
Both your ds and the other dc have SN, one is no less valid than the other. Both dc have behaviours that are outwith their control-they just present differently-and both dc deserve to be supported to reach their best potential.
It is the fault of the SYSTEM not the dc with ADHD, that support is taken away from your ds.
With all that dc with SN have to overcome, people being precious re different conditions is not necessary.(Sorry if thats not what you meant-touched a raw nerve).

Oh dear, I am full of crossness and things to say, but I know will just wind myself up more. PP and Victoria, my son is a PERSON. He may have aspergers and challenging behaviour but he is the love of my life, and worth just as much as your children. He is in Year 4, just got 5a in all his assessment SATs tests, reading age of 15. He is funny, bright, loving, imaginative, the best company from a child I have ever experienced. He has also tried to kill himself 3 times, resulting in me rushing him to hospital to save his life. I have been mentally, physically and emotionally abused by parents like yourselves who made my life hell at his ms school. I had a nervous breakdown and had to spend a long time way from my job and my children. I am lucky, he is in a MS school with a resourced provision now. No bigotry, no exclusions, no playground horror. He is happy, healthy and thriving. He wants to be an architect or a civil engineer, I have no doubt that he will. I have 2 children with no SN, they are at the ms school, so I can see this from both sides. You really should think a little about the impact of sweeping statements about these children like they are worth nothing, they are all somebody's precious child. This thread has made me cry, has brought back unhealthy feelings I thought I had moved on from, need to move away from it

I think if she is volunteering in the school then you should mention it confidentially to the class teacher and ask her to speak with this person. She clearly has not heard of the disability discrimination act and needs to be briefed on it. Im sure the school wouldn't want her misrepresenting them in this way.

Otherwise I think you should brief her in a nice but clear way, yourself.

I totally agree with you on the NIMBY front Bigpants. The fact is, if the resources are in place correctly, 'disruptive' children get the help they need to integrate correctly and not actually be disruptive.

I hate harping on about my brother because he's a person in his own right, but he was let down by schools which didn't allow for his inclusion and labelled as 'disruptive' simply because the support was not in place to make sure he could cope with the pace and structure of the lesson. His SENs were not that prescripive - his dyspraxia means he cannot write quickly, his communication difficulties meant that he took speech completely literally, and he got flustered and panicked if rushed (so timed exercises such as tests have been a huge obstacle for him to overcome.) To look at him and talk to him now, you world hardly know. He has a few eyebrow raisers (an obsession with the World Wars and video games which breaks into ordinary conversations), but is perfectly capable of catching a bus, nipping down to the shops, and going to college by himself. Yet, branded 'disruptive' by the teachers, by these NIMBYers standards, he should be kept apart. As it happens, he was, and it's only thanks to the chance my mother was a dedicated teacher to him for a decade that he wasn't ostracised, excluded and then simply forgotten, and that he's re-integrating now.

If that can happen to someone with fairly non severe ASD issues, what chance do other children have? Exclusion is a terrible thing to inflict upon a child's ego for the sake of a few precious moments in the day when someone's pampered darling isn't getting the full attention of the teacher which they probably don't really need anyway. I got through schol with very good marks by simply getting on with things and ignoring the distractions. SEN children aren't affecting the 'normal' children - it's simply a biased, unfair view perpetuated by pushy parents.

Last year at the kids primary school, before DS1 went to secondary school, there was 3 children with CP in that one school, 2 of them are mine. There was a girl with a genetic disorder which means her muscles will waste and she will be in a wheelchair soon. There was another girl with hypermobile disorder too.
There is a quite a few with ASD, ADHD and ODD too. All in a school of 600 pupils

It definately depends on the individual child.
My DD did not do well socially or academically in MS but has thrived beyond all expectation in a special school ( to the point that we were worried she would be made to go back to MS)
She is a confident performer at all the school productions, has been picked for the girls football team and can explain her timetable and the work they have done to me in great detail each evening.
The school also supports us as a family and when you have a child with sometimes difficult behaviours, this is invaluable.
I went in for her annual review today... everyone in her school 'gets her' for the good and the bad, and we work as a team.

However, I work in MS and there are children with SEN who I feel our school caters for brilliantly ( and so do their parents)

It depends on the child.

Just to put my experience in - when I was teaching I always felt that children with SN/SEN enriched all the teaching, learning and relationships in the class. I was lucky to work at a school that was very good at supporting children with a whole range of needs - I learnt more there then anywhere else. I worked with SALTs and OTs and EPs and physiotherapists and more. Every strategy you learn as a teacher to support a child with SN/SEN makes you a better teacher for all children. I learnt about child development and language acquisition, I learnt about physical access and creative planning, I learnt about the dedication, heart and knowledge of parents, I learnt so much.

The school really valued the children as people in their own right, every child had a talent, every child was worth the best - theirs and their teachers. I wish all schools could be like that.

I'm glad you posted about Tumble Tots and dance club etc. It wouldn't have occurred to me that a child with CP would take part in these activities but I guess they want to do them and be included like the other children there age. Makes perfect sense now I think about it.

' I have been mentally, physically and emotionally abused by parents like yourselves who made my life hell at his ms school.'

Eh ? I have not abused , bullied or even spoken to the parents of my DDs SN classmates on the matter
It is my tiny 5 yo DD who is being bullied by 2 physically bigger and stronger SN kids who between them yank her hair tear up her pictures and writing ,snatch books from her hands and destroy her posessions on an almost daily basis.staff are being signed off sick with the stress of them !
.And they are never punished because they are 'speshul'
My DD and others in her class should not have to be subjected to this sort of abuse.I have not been into school to complain yet because I felt sorry for the parents,but after reading this thread, it has become obvious that SN parents by and large don't give a fig about the other kids who are being abused by their little darlings.
the title of this thread says it wants a range of opinions on the subject.So why read it if you are going to be upset by those who don't think the same way as you.

PP do the two boys you are speaking about have SEN or SN, because they can be two totally different things. I find it hard to believe that the staff do nothing about this behaviour.

princessparty you have obviously not read the thread, i for one said it wasn't fair that your dd had to put up with it.
but imo you are just stirring(trolling) to get a arguement started on a thread that by and large has been quite friendly.

"And they are never punished because they are 'speshul'"

Lovely. 'speshul'. Do you have any understanding how utterly offensive you are?

And where has any parent of a chid with SN said they don't give a fig about other children being hurt. If you actually read (rather than imagine) what was said you will see that parents have said the exact opposite.

"And they are never punished because they are 'speshul'"

...and just when you thought there were no depths left to plumb...

My child has never hurt anyone in his life ( except me a few times when he was 4). And the things thatyou DD has been dealing with are getting worse every time you post. If it is as bad as you say then the school are failing hugely in their responsibilities to your child and to the boys.
If my child were being treated by anyone as your DD is apparently being treated there is no waythat I would not go in and ask what the school is doing to fully support the children in question.

You have no notion of whether the parents are in complaining and asking for their childrens IEPs etc to be properly supported or whetherthe parents don't care.

In my experience the parents of children with SN are very anxious thattheir children are safe and not any kind of a disturbance or distraction to others.

And can I ROFL that you don't get that parents of SN children feel defensive and yet you have been challenged on a couple of threads and are now spitefully name calling at children. Funny eh?

I can honestly say that my ds has never frightened another child. I don't know if this will change as he's 4 in May but can any parent say what their child will be like? He has a ASD and is well behaved in preschool merely stepping aside as the other children rush through the door pushing and fighting.
He has been hurt my other NT children though. On a ferry he was blocked in a corner by two older children as they were throwing soft large bricks at him. I'd only turned my back for a minute. Do you know what totally broke my heart? He didn't even realise that they were being horrible. He wanted to carry on playing with them.