to think there's a case for complying with a DH's sexual fantasy,even if you're NOT really up for it?

[WashwithCare]

Had lunch with some friends today, and this was the discussion.

20 years ago, I would have said NO WAY - sex should be totally mutual, pleasurable to both etc...

However, now I'm not so sure. My mate's H has hinted he would like to try X. My mate is OMG - NO!

However, she says she is still thinking about it... DH has been her love for 10 years. He has supported her. Never minded having virtually no sex for 2 years after a difficult birth and PND. Told her she was gorgeous and supported her fully every day....

So she is pondering whether he "deserves" X for super good behaviour - and because (we know he is the most faithful H ever) he is not going to get it ever, less she relents!

So I started off saying NO WAY - but as she spoke perhaps think her position isn't that unreasonable... But I am huge and hormonal... so what do I know!

Dittany: No one is claiming that all men (or all women) like BDSM sex. Some people do and some people don't. Plenty of domestic violence has nothing to do with sexual preference or sex at all: women get assaulted for 'answering back' or not performing housework 'correctly', for not handing over the gas bill money so the man can spend it on drink/drugs etc.
The reason people get so heated when you insist that most/all sexual activity which might involve a man enjoying himself must be abusive is that you are pronouncing on their lives, experiences and sexual choices when you don't know them, don't know their partners, haven't had their experiences - basically you don't own any kind of objective truth about other people's lives.

Dittany, I think you do a great diservice to many many women with some of your views

If a woman enjoys being sub in her sexlife occasionally, it isn't a throwback to some past abuse, neither is BDSM. As people have said, it involves high levels of trust and that is the difference to any abusive situation

I see people here who talk of sex with joke and a glint in their eye, it appears you don't have that and that is very sad

Many people have huge trauma in their lives but that doesn't have to shape their future in totality.

It also appears that you cannot accept women can choose to do more than missionary in the bedroom. I find that sad too

Even though I have been through a horrific assault, I still enjoy roleplay that involves me pretend struggling or light bondage and I also like acting dominant, these things are nothing to do with my assault even though I'm pretty sure you'll come back and say they are

just to add, DV is about power, humiliation, degregation, sex may be a weapon to enable that but sex isn't why a man or woman abuses and the two imo are separate

I also believe rape is not about sex either, it's the same...power, humiliation and degregation, nothing to with sex (which is why I prefer to say I was seriously assaulted)

i have always have had some quite extreme fantasies, for as long as i can remember - some of them i wouldn't want to live out. Some of them are impossible I have had these fantasies all my adult life really, or at least from the time i started masturbating - how old? hmmm, about 14 i suppose. However, only been in this relationship with DP that i have ever explored it and i have had a few lol. My point being, that i had those thoughts with no outside influence. It was only when i read the secret garden that i thoguht "oh, its not just me then". I didnt think i was a freak - i was a bit disappointed really - i thought i was so sexual that i transcended normal sexuality [arrogant] then of course the internet came along and i had a term for it - BDSM. It most definately isnt just me it would seem.

What fascinates me is that there are thousands of people who like similar things to me. Why is that? What drives someone to want that? On the whole i am a big wussy wus bag - i suffer with anxiety and am scared of my own shadow - i started a thread on here about being so sodding sensitive that i can't watch violent films with DP. They make me feel sick, well no, not sick just sad, i have great empathy since i had my children. But i like violent sex, my fantasies are off the wall, really quite extreme - im not going into them here, but of course all legal and above board. Just odd - i like that they are odd but of course, they are private. But I do question why it is?

I have a theory, non researched, just my own thougts that it is because sex is an "animal" thing to do. Some animals are actually quite violent sexually - its about getting off, at any cost - fuck me you bastard and make it hard, that sort of thing. Its very base. Thats the only thing i can put it down to.

Why is it so reproducible do you think?

can i just say - please don't jump on dittany, heavens i know she can more than stick up for herself, but just as i am allowed my opinion which is the opposite of hers, she is also entitled to hers. She wont change mine, and she isn't going to change hers. It sort of reads like we are ganging up a little bit.

There are a lot of ways of having sex that are not about missionary or BDSM, so I don't know why Dittany disapproving of BDSM is being seen as some sort of prudishness.

I find people joking about their sex lives as part of an argument they are trying to marshall comes across as very silly. I would like to enter into this debate as I find it interesting but some of the people discussing their BDSM interests sound like 14 years old showing off and joking because they think having a Bacardi Breezer is cool.

too true Milly

Oh no, you misunderstand me MillyR. dittany is perfectly within her rights to enjoy sex however she enjoys it but I object to being told that my proclivities are a result of repressed childhood trauma.

Dittany, it isn't always men who initiate the 'different' sides to sex.

I have always wondered what it would be liked to be spanked during sex. Dh is my only sexual partner & he has never been 'into' anything different.

We are changing at the moment, a lot more open with each other (after 20yrs, believe it or not! We had a major crisis last year (unplanned pregancy that ended in termination) that brought us MUCH closer together. I told him that I would like him to be a little rough with me. He started off very tentatively. It took him a while (weeks) to build up to a level that I liked & a level of what he was happy to give.

He always starts off gently now, waiting for my reaction. He knows, by my different reactions if I want more or less, or none at all. Because I don't always want that as part of our lovemaking. So how is he in control of that? He isn't, I am! Because I only have to react in a certain way & he stops etc.

He never suggested it at all & has said that at first he found it strange to be inflicting 'pain' on me. We have talked about it & he is now comfortable with what he does. He knows there is more that I would like, but is waiting for ME to tell him, when I am ready. He has no idea what it is, so cannot start to try without my full consent.

In the process of me speaking up, dh has started to say what he likes. After 20 years it is our best time yet for our sexual relationship & as I said, we are much closer now too.

Your posts do really give off an air that all woman are being forced to play 'games' they don't want to. It is not the case!

We can be in control too! Why do I like it? Dunno to be honest! Same reason that men like their cocks sucked I guess, cos it feels good & has a great end result!

And no, I don't think I am reliving ANYTHING form my past!

No one is saying it is in anyway wrong for somebody not to like the more different kind of sexual relationship, no one is being called a prude

We are saying that just because we like it occasionally in a different way to the norm, doesn't mean we are doing it for our men, being coerced or reliving some earlier trauma

Mumcentreplus, no special equipment used here either.

But I can see why some do, it adds something I guess. Just like this new level has for dh & myself. Not that there was anything missing before....it has added to the experience and as I said, not always needed.

Just different.

So dittany, do you think that, because my dh (who has never laid a finger on me) now spanks me during sex, he is going to start hitting me generally?

Because I don't. He sees spanking as something that gets me going in the bedroom, something that adds to our experience.

I can say, with my hand on my heart that my dh knows the difference between this & DV!

Milly, I think you misunderstand.

It is not the fact that dittany is against BDSM that people are disagreeing with. We all have our opinions, and she is as entitled as any to hers.

What is being objected to is....

She is suggesting that it is about a man domination a woman & that we have no control - no true.

She thinks it is all initiated by men who want to abuse us - not true.

She thinks that women are incapable of wanting BDSM/anything other than straight vanilla sex before a man puts it in to her head - not true!

And from what I can conclude, she thinks that my non violent dh will now starting hitting me because I like to be spanked in the bedroom! Certainly not true!

Yes i agree its just different...different..but Dittany just has an opinion about some people who engage in those acts..and thats it...if it doesn't fit you why are people gettting so wound up about it?...I have my opinions would you have the right to bombard me because they are different to yours?...

we cannot be sure there are not women who are being dominated or abused during sex, we can be sure only about ourselves and our experiences and share those ..but I cant see the sense in getting upset if someone says its not all hunky dory in BDSM world you cant know every person on the scene and the reasons why they are there.

For example some women like to be verbally abused during sex ..bitch..whore..slut...I would quite happily punch my DH in the face if he tried that crap...because someone else enjoys it do I have to?..nope..I would find it quite degrading and irritating but some women would find it orgasmic..
I dont feel the need to fuck or be fucked up the jaxy does that make me strange?...nope..I had a couple of fingers up there and decided that anal sex just wasn't for me and i have no inclination to strap on and do my DH either - after discussion he's quite happy not to have the experience!...I like to be spanked (on the bum open palm ) but I'm part of no scene does that make me weird not in my opinion i cant speak for someone elses though.
just like some women dont like anything but straight sex...or very little sex...each to their own

there will always be extremes or not (depending on your stance in this arguement) but we have to be able to hear other opinions and swallow them like it or not.

Im new to bdsm. well, just over a year.
It has so far been the most wonderful, thrilling ans exciting time of my life.

I was always a little bit 'kinky' and like LEM i had all these thoughts and fantasys that didnt really seem to fit it with most other people. I never thought about doing anything about them. I would have never told anyone and they most certainly contained ' rape' fantasys.

Then, by complete chance i met a dom and what has followed has just been the most amazing discovery of myself. I am sub, but its been ( as far as i can see, and feel) all about me. How i react to this, how i feel about that. I find myself facianating. I realise that sounds odd and a little bit arrogant, but truely i do.

My reaction to things is a mixture of heady mental stuff and pure physical reactions. Its all rather wonderful.

At times i feel scared, un nerved, but thats all part of it, and i enjoy that, a lot. I do know that if i wanted something to stop. it would stop.

I do know that what im up to is a little bit out side the normal. I dont see anything wrong with that at all.

Because she is making sweeping generalisations about something she admitted she knows nothing about!

And yes, no doubt there are women being forced & abused, but dittany implied that that covers all of us. It doesn't.

I don't care what other people do/don't do. Each to their own. What I like may not be someone else's taste, and what some like, may not be my taste.

Some have shared more extreme elements to their sex lives that I don't wish to include in mine, but I am sitting here saying they are being abused, that their spouses will start beating them generally. Dittany is!

but I am not sitting here saying they are being abused

its not abuse if its consensual.

If you have agreeded to something, how is it abuse?

its not

Is that to me, latex? because I have corrected my sentence.

'I think most BDSMers are probably reenacting early trauma that they've forgotten about.'- this was what she said she also said she finds people pretending to rape their partners creepy...and?..where did she say their partners will start to beat them?

and even if she did it's an opinion get over it..if it doesn't fit you why does it bother you that much?...The lady doth protest too much perhaps?..

Well, because opinions about a group of people's behaviour that are based on ignorance and prejudice need addressing because they can be socially harmful. Demonizing the 'perverts' (or the foreign 'extremists') is a favoured tool of governments, backed by the tabloids, when the agenda is a general attack on civil liberties - the government demands the right to spy into all your computer communications because we have to catch the Wierdos (whether that's 'all Muslims are terrorists' or 'All people with unusual sexual tastes are murderous abusive peedafils').

wait a minute...how is saying what she said demonizing...she said why she thought people did it...not that they were bad people or even that they should not do it...
I agree many opinions are based upon prejudice and ignorance but they are opinions shared by some but not all...
when government uses them to their own devices to impose views and change laws to infultrate and excuse their attack on civil liberties it does not negate the fact people have differing opinions.

I think all opinions should be challenged for and against.