To think my nanny shouldn't take holiday on the day I have my c-section

[Gangle]

Our nanny is mostly fantastic, however, I mentioned to her yesterday that I would probably have my c-section for DS2 on 19 March. She replied saying, oh, I was going to take the afternoon of that day off as I need to do X, Y and Z for my wedding. She is getting married in May so is taking 2 weeks then then asked/told me us a few weeks back that she would need to take another 2 weeks from the end of March. I agreed but was slightly annoyed as DS2 is due on 26th March and I was really counting on her being around the first few weeks after he is born to look after DS1 as I wanted to keep things as normal as possible for him. Anyway, so the March holiday wasn't so much of an issue but now she wants to take a half day on 19th which is likely to be the day I have my section as they usually book you in at 39 weeks. I said that to her and she said, oh so and so (the other mum in our nanny share) will watch him that afternoon, which she would but it's not really the point as I just want no dramas that day and to know DS is in his usual routine. In addition, DS is very difficult to settle at night, only goes down with me or the nanny, so on the day I do have the section I was planning to ask her to stay late and put DS to bed. When I said to her that that was the day I would have my section, I expected her to offer to take another day but she didn't so I think I am going to have to put my foot down and tell her to go another time. Am I being unreasonable?

Incidentally, my dd ended up in A&E the day dd2 was born. She had to go and stay with friends on concussion watch (woken every couple of hours) that night while we went to the hospital. They all had a crap night, but she came home first thing in the morning, cuddled the baby and has bonded with her beautifully. The arrangements all matter less than you think, though I know planning it gets a bit stressfull

"DS won't settle with DH"

sorry but I think this is your major problem, and it needs sorting out now. Who are the adults here?

and yes YABU, and controlling.

Yes I do think you are being unreasonable, its only Jan and she has gave you plenty of notice and you have a dh and another nanny on hand.

She may work for you, but you dont own her, she has gave plenty of notice, and you have 2 more people who can put your dc to sleep!

You have 2 months for your child to either learn to go to sleep on his own (better solution when their is a NB) or get your dh to do it!

Milkmade - yes, in an ideal world all dads would be spending lots of quality time with their DCs and fondly tucking their little cherubs into bed every night.

However, real life often intrudes.

Some dads have to work long hours or irregular hours because of their jobs. They often find it difficult to take time off when they need to even for the birth of their DCs. The OP has mentioned that her DH is a doctor and he could very easily be called away for an emergency (I have a surgeon friend who has this happen regularly and when a patient is bleeding to death you HAVE TO GO!)

Also some dads are crap and just won't get involved with looking after their DCs in the way they should. And it is pretty impossible to force them to change if they just don't want to.

And anyway, she EMPLOYS A NANNY to deal with her childcare needs so she should not have to be scrambling about trying to find emergency care for her DC just because her nanny fancys a day off shopping!

Gangle, a few things to consider.

Nothing is definite when it comes to LO's arriving. I have not made it to any of my elec section dates - waters broke earlier than the date with DS1 and contractions started with DS2.

I have also just had DS2 by csection, and i think partly bacause i have DS1, am finding the recovery far harder (and i have lots of extra help)

Because of the above, I also totally second what LIZS has said. You and the nanny simply cannot be the only ones who are able to put your DS to bed. How old is he? I would work on having your DH do bedtime over the next few months. Get out the house for an hour or so if you have to. Your DH should be able to cope with whatever your DS does.

Believe you me, your DS will play up once your baby arrives and unless you do this, you will be the one having to kneel by the bath and do bathtime. No easy feat after a section.

I also think that because of your lack of childcare options, you need to prepare yourself for the fact that your DH stays home with your DS. We were without back up care for 2 days over christmas and if labour had started, I would have been on my own until my mother was able to get to us. DH would have had to stay with DS.

So - YANBU to expect your nanny to be more accomodating. But be careful about insisting on a particular afternoon and discuss more her being more flexible around your due dates.
But I do think a little YABU when it comes to your DS, you sound as though you are still being very PFB about him. Start others being able to do his bed/ bathtime otherwise you are building a rod for your own back.

I'm amazed anyone says yabu. She needs an afternoon off to shop on the very day you are booked for a c-section? Just say 'no' it's not convenient you have to look after ds1 the day I give birth to my second child. It's hardly like you're asking her to do you a favour. She's your nanny and you pay her to look after ds1 fgs!

Yorkshire: yes real life is about to intrude big style in the shape of a new born who will also need looking after round about bed time... Its not just the birth day gangle needs to think about...

LittleMrsHappy - the nanny asked for a day off for a pretty trivial reason on the one day of the year when it is most vital that she is there! It is quite reasonable to turn her down.

I can't understand why there are so many people who are having a go at the OP just because she expects the nanny to stick by her employment contract. She is not entitled to just give notice of taking holiday, it has to be AGREED! Just giving more notice doesn't mean that being left without her regular childcarer will be any less inconvenient! If she worked as a warehouse manager and requested a day off on the day of the annual stocktake any reasonable person would expect her to be refused. Why is working as a nanny any different?

so she is having 2 weeks off in may (for the wedding) and 2 weeks in march (to prepare)? that makes 4 weeks i.e. her normal entitlement for holidays. so how is she having another half day holiday time? surely her contract limits the amount of days she has off?

to be honest if i was a nanny i would be emotionally involved with the family and so would want to meet the new charge ASAP and be sure my current charge is well ajusted to the situation so everything runs smoothly i.e. not abandoned on whoever, while mummy and daddy go off to have baby.

i think yep she gave you notice of holiday and emotions don't come into the legal side of things so she should be able to take it off. But i also feel shes being very difficult! and showing complete disregard to your situation. surely shes known for some time when babys due + when things will get dificult for you (a month or so before due date), surely the bump gave it away!! and would be preparing to take on more duties to make your lives easier, not less duties!

give her it off, fine someone else to have firstborn and start looking for a more compassionate nanny.

Milkmade - oh yes, she will have a lot to think about once the baby is born. And I agree her DH is being pretty crap in refusing to get involved in caring for his own DC. But it is true that the working patterns of a lot of dads make it impossible for them to be at home to regularly but their young DCs to bed. And on the day of the birth he is likely to be busy looking after mum and new baby.

But all those issues are nothing to do with the nanny. She is employed to look after this child. Is it unreasonable to expect the nanny that she PAYS to look after her DC to be available on the day she is giving birth and put off her shopping trip to another day?

I think YA both BU. A bit. YABU because you're getting worked up about a date that isn't yet fixed. She's BU because it seems unlikely that she simply must have that particular day off.

Can't you both be a little flexible? As in let the nanny have the afternoon off provisionally but if it transpires that you'll be having your c-section that day then she'll have to rearrange? That way she'll know not to arrange fittings for example on that day, but to leave it for something moveable. Like sticking diamantes to placecards or somesuch.

I would also suggest making her watch Bridezillas on wedding tv. Tis a real eye-opener

Gangle will need to tell the nanny she can't have the day off.

My Dh is a chef so works 13-14 hour days 5 days a week. However, he still managed to put the DCs to bed on his two days off. Nannies come and go and I think it is very sad that Gangle's DH isn't putting his son to bed every now and then. It isn't rocket science.

i think YANBU, i think what perhaps you now need to do is sit down with her and say look my due date is the 26th of March, DS1 came at 37.5 weeks. From the 5th of march (37 weeks) to my due date you will be unable to take any annual leave. Then if you new baby comes early you have cover. This to me is no different to my employer say big project is due on the 26th of March no annual leave from the 5th of march to get all the paperwork in place.

I can believe how many people on this thread think its ok for an employee to dictate to their boss when they have holiday, whilst my leave requests are never rejected i never assume its ok.

Whether you DH can or can't get your DS to settle is a red herring, this is a simple employee/employer discussion.

YANBU and I hope this doesn't send your blood pressure shooting up.

I think you do need to say to the nanny that she can't have the day of your elcs off, that you will confirm the date asap but likely to be 19th.

Although your DH does need to be able to help out at bedtime, this is something that will gradually have to come over the next few months (and will do anyway when you have a newborn to look after).

I think your nanny is being a bit rubbish to be honest, and I certainly don't think it is reasonable for her to expect you to leave DS with the other mum using the nanny share who is pregnant herself (have I got that right?)

I agree CrackFox that her DH needs to start fulfilling his part of the parenting deal.

I was at first to hear he couldn't put their ds to bed, but then remembered that I had to put some serious pressure on to my own DP to get more involved. It wasn't that he was a git - he just didn't think he could

He worked long, odd hours too (in the hospitality business) which meant he was rarely around at bedtime - but I (eventually) forced the issue. Now we both work fulltime and parenting is very much shared 50:50.

My local hospital doesn't do elective c-sections on a Friday. Mine also did them at 38 weeks.

YANBU. It is astonishing how nannies think they can take time off at will, and on the day you are scheduled to be having your C-section. Whether or not you do is not the point. In other jobs, you need to negotiate with colleagues. She is taking loads of time off for wedding... 4 weeks of?? What? I took 2.5 weeks off for my own wedding.

Also very inconsiderate of her in my view. Look in your contract with her for clarity on holiday arrangements.

Get your DH involved a bit more. I can't believe your DS won't settle with him at bedtime. I can count on one hand the amount of times my DH has been back in the week to do bedtime (he works long hours) so he always does the weekend. I think it's a bit sad and will make your life a lot harder in the long run.

By frakkinaround Wed 20-Jan-10 03:35:27
YANBU at all.

"As a nanny I wouldn't have even thought to ask for the date of an employers C-section off. I would have been on 24 hour call in case something went wrong and I needed to be around to look after charges, put them to bed, stay the weekend, whatever. ESPECIALLY if family were a flight and train ride away"

Exactly. My nanny was the same. She cancelled a dentist appointment on the day we thought my section was likely to be, on her own initiative, and made it clear to me that she would be on 24-hr call to look after DS1 just in case I went into labour early in the few weeks before DS2 was due. She wouldn't have dreamed of asking for holiday at that time, and it would certainly never occur to her to ever tell me when she is taking holiday.

I think the fact that she is telling you about holiday means that your relationship isn't as it should be anyway.

The fact that other people manage without a nanny is completely irrelevant. If you're paying for one then you don't need to manage without, that's the whole point.

I think you need to re-establish the employer-employee relationship in an amicable way. You could even say that although at the moment you don't think it's likely she'll be able to have that afternoon off, if things change and your c-section is a different day, you may be able to accommodate it.

Oh, and when it comes to the c-section date, I was offered two days during the week before I was due, 39+3 and 39+5, as those days were available. I certainly didn't get to pick whichever day I wanted, so that may be an issue.

Sorry, but I don't think this is unreasonable in the slightest! Our amazing nanny was worried about taking a day off 3 weeks after my due date to go to her dear friend's wedding and actually said she was going to say no!! I told her not to be silly, of course, and that she must go....she would not dream of missing work near the due date because she is so excited about the new baby and so concerned that our DD is settled and happy before the new arrival.

Also, I think it is slightly bridezillaish to require a weekday off to go shopping for wedding things. What's wrong with Saturday? My employer would laugh hysterically if I asked for a half day off for shopping.

Can't the date be left flexible, so if it turns out the section is on that day, the trip can be cancelled?

Surely it should come as no suprise to her that your baby is due towards the end of March?! I think she is being quite cheeky TBH, whatever errands she has to do around that time can presumably be moved back a week or so with 2 months notice. I can only imagine that she is worried that once the baby arrives her workload will be greater and she will be needed more so is trying to get her holiday in before the baby arrives. But if this was the case you would assume she would be flexible. YANBU anyway, but perhaps you could think of a way round it to ensure smooth relations between you both after the baby arrives, particularly as your DS currently relies on her so much.

I don't think YABU.

You have already given her 2 weeks holiday in May plus 2 weeks holiday at the end of March, despite this being a very busy time at home for you with a new baby.

Then she tells you that she is having another half day just before this planned 2 week March break.

She should be requesting holidays and having them agreed with you.

As a nanny surely she must be able to understand why she is needed the week of the c section?

Yes, she is getting married but so what? Since when did wedding plans entitle you to have holidays when you feel like it from your employment?

I know very few places of employment where you could just take holidays as and when you fel like it, with no requesting first and making sure it doesn't interfere too much with important work based committments.

My sister gets married this May. Rerckon she is getting lots of time off in advance fo dressfittings? lol, as if! She is employed and has to work. like most people. Being a nanny is no different.

YANBU.

if I asked for time off at work and it was an inconvenient time for my boss it would be refused. Simple as.

Your nanny is no different.

I agree you do need to work on DH being able to settle DS at night. This will be even more important when you have another baby at home.

But those saying that you already have childcare that day...maybe the OP would like to ave her DH with her whilst she goes into hospital to have major abdominal surgery?