A weighty issue, sorry.

[namechangedwithgoodreason]

I have namechanged, because I am quite sure I am going to get a pasting for this, but I have to get some opinions on this situation, so please be honest with me.

My mother is a very large lady. Her weight causes her alot of health problems (her Dr has stressed the importance of losing weight to her for years)
My DH's best mate is also a very large man, although no known health problems there.

I honestly don't give a monkeys arse if they eat too much and exercise too little, because they like to live that way. It does not bother me in the slightest. I have to stress this, before you all flame me.
I do object to my mother volunteering to tell me a whole load of lies about what she eats every day and then bemoans the fact she has not lost weight. (My brother still lives at home and sees the portions my mother eats, and his story is different. Also, when my mother was hospitalised for sleep apnea (sp), she lost alot of weight very very quickly.)

I have told my mother it is her business what she eats and when, I am not bothered, but she still feels a need to lie totell me in minute detail every last morsel she claims to have eaten every day.

What does worry me though, and this is where people will be most annoyed at me I think, is when DH best mate or my mother come to my house, or when I give either of them a lift anywhere.

My car is 4 years old and it groans when either of them get in it. (I have never had them both in it at the same time)
Neither of them can get the seat belt around themselves easily, and I always sit them in the front, but they spill over onto my handbrake a little.

I always find my car veers to the left after giving either of them a lift, and my tyre pressure is always 'down' afterwards.

In my house, neither will sit on my kitchen chairs, because one of the chairs collapsed on DH's mate one evening.

My sofa has been broken today by mother pushing on the arm to get herself up, and we both heard a loud crack.
This is the 2nd sofa my mother has broken.

My other brother lives with his DW and 3DC, and he has had chairs collapse, and we have both had toilet seats broken more times than we care to remember. My mother's 2 year old divan bed has now collapsed in the middle, and she is probably going to buy a iron framed bed and mattress.

I know you will probably all say I am being nasty, but what weight is the average sofa/car/kitchen table/bed designed for?

My DB thinks cars especially are designed to carry quite alot of weight.

My mother's car never groans, and she is convinced my car is probably ready for the knackers yard because of the noises it makes when she gets in.

Of course, I have not told my mother my car doesn't make noises like that all the time, nor have I mentioned that I think it is her weight that is causing her bed to collapse, or my sofa to break, but please please tell me, for my own peace of mind, how big would someone have to be before you were a little concerned about them being in your car or sitting on your sofa.

FWIW, DH best mate is proud to say he is 37st 4lb, and my mother says the last time she was weighed at the Dr, she was 26st 8lb.

Please share your thoughts with me, while I run and take cover hide

Heqet, that is a fantastic post

I think I'd get a special chair for her and husband's mate, if it were me, OP. And have a heart-to-heart talk about why you find you need that chair. The rest I would just grit my teeth and put up with, they are adults at the end of the day.
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Since someone asked...

I have to admit I get irrationally angry at anorexic people. I think it's something to do with their obvious in-denial state about their own physique -- it drives me crazy. I want to throttle sense into them (I know it wouldn't work, I just feel like it). I don't get angry at the grossly obese, instead I feel frightened for them.

Moondog, I like most your posts, I appreciate your original thinking, I'd hate you to leave MN. But your lack of compassion on this issue stinks.

Also...imvho, Other than being very stinky or very dirty, it is ...f***g MEDIEVAL to describe other people's physical attributes using terms like "disgusting" or "immoral" . Anyone who thinks that way should be ashamed of themselves.

Oh yes, there are overweight and obese people who are so because they are greedy and lazy. But I would disagree that someone who eats themselves to death has done so through greed. That is a mental health problem / psychological problem / emotional problem / self loathing / self destruction / whatever you want to call it. It is against normal human nature to engage in behaviour that is killing you when you know, when you have been repeatedly warned, that you will die. Your need to engage in the behaviour is stronger than your desire to live.

That is not and could never be described as "greed".

TSC I get that attitude totally but there is a huge difference between a dress size and 15 stone: I am the heaviest I have ever been about a dress size bigger than I want to be and two dress sizes bigger than the holy grail 'my wedding weight'.

But I cannot be arsed to lose my baby weight, I plan to be pregnant again very soon (DS was stillborn in the summer) and so in my mind there is little point. However I have now let my extra dress size go for 6 months and I recognise I have to do something about it. Frankly it is hard to give up kettle chips and wine, but I prefer being thin so (if I'm not preg this month ) I will eat grilled fish and get my arse to the gym.

Tethersend sorry crap referencing on my part, I didn't mean to attribute my last suggestion to you it was a general comment. In my comment "how do you get to 15 stone without thinking about it" it followed on from the previous sentence so I meant how do you get to 15 stone without thinking about losing weight as oposed to simply acknowledging that you need to.

Sorry to hear about your ds, Nancy. I would say be gentle with yourself. A little extra weight won't hurt you whilst ttc. I have 3 children and each time I ttc I upped my weight by 7 pounds. Am usually a size 8 but liked being a size 10 when ttc.

I think it would have to be, Riven. Not caring if you die has got to be a problem, surely? It's not normal thinking.

Exactly Heqet.
Some of the attitudes on this thread are what's morally disgusting.
"Greedy and lazy" may account for thr first few pounds to couple of stone over, who can say they never have these moments? But beyond that there is a point where people feel there is no going back. IMO that's where the psychological issues start.

On some levels it's a lttle like being an alcoholic - there is a psychological line between being a heavy drinker and a problem drinker, often obscured from the person themselves.

Op, YANBU. My mum is the same - not quite as obese as your mum but that depends on the month/ day. She is constantly 'dieting' and constantly thinking about what she is eating and not enjoying it.

There seem to be 2 major problems: 1) she has so much weight to lose that she can't see the improvement when she loses 2 stone say, she is still morbidly obese and 2) my grandma had a big thing about food as reward - particularly if it was high in fat and sugar and generally quite grim. I know there was a point at which I commented (age 10) that I liked walnut whip. I was given about 10 a day for a couple of weeks and HAD to eat them because otherwise I diudn't love my grandma....

I'm slightly podgy atm (11 stone and 5'4" but with a 3mo DS) but am gradually losing the weight and it has really made me conscious of the food for reward thing my mum has going on. The 'oh, I've had a bit of a bad day, I'll get a takeaway' or I've only eaten salad today, I can have a pudding (i.e. potato salad/coleslaw/loads of mayo and cheese) and absolutely no exercise because she is too fat for it to be really possible.

I wish I could help properly but I either get told off for preaching when she promptly does the opposite, tells me I'm too vain or just ignores me.

this thread is so depressing.

I think it is fear of ones own out of control and destructive impulses that make people feel things such as disgust and anger in situations where we might hope they would have compassion.
This does not in mind excuse it but shows what an emotive subject eating is for so many.

Eating disorders are extremely complex, destructive and difficult to overcome. There is usually a huge amount of self hatred so in a way those of you that feel disgust are just getting a small dose of what the sufferer feels about themselves. I find it so upsetting that it is a mental health problem that causes such cruel reactions- it is not the only one but it does seem to provoke particular cruelty. I suppsose it is a particularly visible form of self abuse.

Anyway, it is a subject that aways upsets me and I hope those of you who have spoken so movingly and openly about your own battles can manage to get the help you deserve.

Well I am reading this thread in between watching My Big Fat Diet Show on channel 4 catchup. I am obese. My weight has gone up gradually over the last 10 years so I am now about 5 stone overweight. I am not lazy. I walk between 3 and 6 miles most days taking dc to school. I do realise that I have an emotional attachment with food. This is something mentioned quite abit on this programme and is I am sure very common. In a way overeating is an addiction in the same way as smoking or drinking too much. However, I have now decided to do something about my weight. OP you do have a right to be concerned if this is causing damage to yuor furniture. Can't really offer any advice as I think it it up to the individual to decide when they need to take action.

Some illnesses are disgusting, though Heqet. But agree that the sufferers need help.

Those of you who are morbidly obese and looking for support - I don't know if it is all GPs but in our area your Dr can refer you to Slimming World and you get vouchers (from your GP)so that you get membership and a whole bunch of sessions free (for someone who mentioned the problem of costs on another post).
HTH and very best of luck to all those about to start on a weight loss journey.

Heqet I believe only one person on this thread has said they are "disgusted" with fat people but as predicted that comment is the focus.

I am genuinely interested in the assertion that all overweight people are mentally ill. Does the same apply to all people who smoke - a far more obvious way of certainly killing yourself. Most people would agree that smokers lack will power and are sometime adicted to a drug but are they psychologically ill?

How have we got to a point where we are able to call someone who smokes disgusting or morally reprehensible for endagiring their life when they are a parent but if someone is fat we have to tread on tippitoes for fear of upsetting them?

romance and TSC - thanks

Riven did everyone with a weight issue that you saw in the course of your work have a psycholgical disorder? Do men suffer "weight disorders" to the same extent woman do?

everyone with an eating disorder needs help, agreed. it's depressing that society concntrates on the two extremes so much, fat or thin, and doesnt celebrate all the gorgeous people who are in the inbetween bit.
when stuff starts getting broken because of your weight though, thats when it has got oout of control....
i do feel sorry for those who are clinically oobese, sometimes. because i meet so many people who make NO EFFORT whatsoever. switching to low-fat chocolate and biscuits doesnt work, you're still stuffing in junk!
i do feel sorry for overweight children with obese parents though, who are fed rubbish from birth.

"How have we got to a point where we are able to call someone who smokes disgusting or morally reprehensible for endagiring[sic] their life when they are a parent but if someone is fat we have to tread on tippitoes for fear of upsetting them?"

The smoking analogy doesn't hold water IMO- nicotine is a physically addictive drug.

You either smoke or you don't. The difficult thing is, you need food to survive- you can't just 'give it up' in the same way you can cigarettes.

The assertion wasn't that all overweight people have psychological problems, just (possibly) those who are morbidly obese.

some people's attitude is definitely not helping, they think it is but it does the opposit.

I am 6 stones overweight, it did not creep on on me over years of greed, it came quite rapidely over a 6 month periode where I was depressed and yes food was my only confort, added to the fact that I had recently stopped smocking, gave up work (waitressing, up to 16 hours a day)to be SAHM I just did not have time to realise until it was too late. (I blame wearing elasticated trousers kept from pregnancy for keeping me in the dark)

When I realised I had to do something about it I tried very hard and lost 3 out of those 6 stones but then got to a periode where my weight was not changing anymore and people, including in my familly started to implie that I had lost my will power and that if I had gone so far surely the rest would be easy, well it made me feel very useless and guess what, the 3 stones came back faster than they had gone! And 9 years on are still there. I have not put up any more weight on but just cannot shift what is already there.

Last summer we spent 2 weeks in DH's family where the first thing I was told was "oh that is OK, you have not put "too much" weight on since the last time we saw you (even before asking how I was!!!!) followed by being told at every mouth full that I should be carefull (but asked what was wrong with me if I declined another serving) then came the "realisation" for them that surely if I was that weight it was because I was happy with it and started getting comments like "you are so fortunate to not care about how you look" (really does wonders for your self estime)

So for two weeks, I ate absolutely nothing during the day, but when everyone was asleep, ate anything I could get my hands on that did not need any cooking because I was :

1. totally starving
2. feeling like shite

So, to cut a long story short, harsh comments to "wake up the obese" or depleasant ones do all but help!

Riven, I find it a bit disturbing tbh that as a psychologist you have used terms like lazy and greedy about people who are seriously obese. It seems somewhat lacking in thinking to say the least. Are you a clinical psychologist?

A lot of people clearly do have mental issues connected with food though, and there could be a lot more support for them.
We have never lived in an age where high calorie food was so cheap, and there were so many labour saving devices before, this is new territory.

Nancy, I am sorry to hear about your son, that's terrible.

I don't think I am going to respond to your challenge to 'educate' you because that would involve going to great lengths on an open forum about a subject which is very personal to me.

I will say that I find your attitude absolutely astounding.
I think others have answered your questions while I was out.
I hope this thread might alter your perceptions which are so, SO upsetting to a lot of people reading it.

Yours and those of Moondog, Dontpanic and some others too. Some outrageous things being said and this evening I do not have time or energy to fight such overwhelming prejudice...for that I apologise, not to you lot but to those larger women here who could use all the defending and clever arguing they can get tonight.

Really feel sad reading this.