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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Potential fraud?

411 replies

DontKnowWhatToDoNext · 22/12/2009 14:30

I am prepared to be flamed so go ahead but WWYD in my situation?

In brief - DH and I split up last year. 6 months ago, I lost my job due to depression and have since started getting better, have been living on benefits since then with DH paying maintenance for our 3 DCs. I have been desperately trying to get another job but my sickness record at my last job has gone against me. Last month, I was given notice to quit my rented house because the landlord wants to sell - runs out end of Jan.

Over the last few months DH and I have been giving our relationship another go and fell into bed last month (definitely not planned) and I have just found out I'm pregnant which was not supposed to happen . We have discussed it at length and want to get back together (we split up because we have been through a lot of shit over the last few years and blamed each other and basically were hating each other all the time). Time apart has helped sort that out and he has been round almost everyday to see the kids so they have not been that badly affected.

Now I had been to the council (before I found out about the pregnancy) and told them that I am about to be made homeless and they basically said that I would have to find another private rent or they would put me in a B&B.

Now bad as this sounds, I want to try for a council house (even if it means a B&B for a few months as the rents are so high in this area (1000 for a passable 3 bed and now I will need a 4 bed which will be about 1200) so do not intend to get back with DH 'officially' until this happens. DH works but only brings in about 1800 a month and we will never be able to live on his wage in private rented especially as I won't be able to work with a baby and I can't stand the insecurity of having to move all the time (we have moved 3 times in the last 3 years). I am also bankrupt and will not be able to private rent unless I have a guarantor which I don't! Part of the reason for the problems with DH and I were financial as we lost everything (including our own home) when his business went under a few years back. He will also have to go bankrupt soon as his debts have been hanging around and with another child to pay for, he will not be able to pay them.

DH has his own flat and is not actually living with me so AIBU and a total scumbag to try and get a council house as a single parent??

OP posts:
FluffyPumpkins · 22/12/2009 16:36

maybe you should check again with your housing officer as you have been given incorrect info!.

we already have 4 dc,s and have a three bed.

AxisofEvil · 22/12/2009 16:38

Guidance on living together as husband and wife is here

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 22/12/2009 16:39

If you end up with three the same gender you might only get a 2 bed.

purplepeony · 22/12/2009 16:39

Ok marantha- so tell me why the OP uses inverted commas around "officially"? You seem to have missed that and be going on about something else.

Offically in inverted commas seems to me to say, "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, in the same house, but not til I've got it."

Maybe the OP will come back and clear up this little detail for us? If they are having sex, and another baby, then I can't see how officially can imply anything other than his moving in. In terms of daily contact and finances they are back together anyway.

HappyMummyOfOne · 22/12/2009 16:40

You dont have to be living in the same house to be convicted for benefit fraud if claiming as a single person when you're not. The rule book states this, there are a list of things that can prove you are a couple whether you reside at the same address of not. Given that you are married and expecting again, I'd say there was a fine chance that the decision maker would agree you are not single.

You have a decent income, you may not think so but its more than some people have. You decided to have another child, therefore you should support it - rather than commit fraud and let the tax payers pick up the expense.

RumourOfAHurricane · 22/12/2009 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

marantha · 22/12/2009 16:47

purplepeony Listen, it is a good job that not everyone thinks like you do.
HappyMummyOfOne, I don't believe you.

The Decision Makers Guide is quite clear:

"The couple must be residing in the same household to be classed as ltahaw".

If a person can PROVE that they live elsewhere and provide evidence for this in the forms of bills etc, they can't be done for fraud.

By your reasoning, HappyMummy..., nobody who is unfortunate enough to be claiming housing benefit because of a job loss can't have a relationship with a working partner that does not live with them. Bollocks.

HerbalHolly · 22/12/2009 16:47

marantha you've made the same point again and again and again. In fact it's the only thing you've said on this entire subject. It's not really even relevant -

The original post says:
Now bad as this sounds, I want to try for a council house (even if it means a B&B for a few months as the rents are so high in this area (1000 for a passable 3 bed and now I will need a 4 bed which will be about 1200) so do not intend to get back with DH 'officially' until this happens.

this suggests (the words in bold have been made bold by me to highlight want I mean)that the lady whose situation we are discussing is already aware that she will be deceiving the council in order to get the type of housing that she would like.

This suggests to me (and others too, it seems) that the lady intends to have the chap move back in with her. I'm sorry to be a bore but could you drop the repeated 'it's not cohabitation if they aren't living together' line. Obviously cohabitation mean living together I get that. But the point isn't are they living together it's IS SHE BEING UNREASONABLE?

Rossco · 22/12/2009 16:50

I have 4 DC's we live in a 3 bed. We have just been offered a new home (a house, we are in a flat) and it too is a 3 bed but we have grabbed it. We have been told the chances of us getting a 4 bed are remote and one of our DC's is a teenager. My 2 eldest share as do the 2 youngest while DH and I have the smallest room and it will be the same in our new home.

I would be honest with the council though and tell them you and DH are hoping to reconcile and that there may come a time when he moves back in.

marantha · 22/12/2009 16:52

No she's not being unreasonable. She is acting within the rules when she is a desperate situation.

FakePlasticChristmasTrees · 22/12/2009 16:55

OP - you sound like you think life is something that just happens to you and other people should fix all your problems for you (which tbh - all sound of your own making).

I'd love a 4 bed house too. I ain't got one. Suck it up, you've chosen to have 4 kids, and between you and your DH you have the means to feed and house them, albeit with very little left over for extra treats, but you'll find very few people are loaded with 4 DCs.

Your situation is the result of decisions you have made, now you want to lie to get someone else to fix it, and that means taking a house away from someone who probably won't have a partner earning above the average wage. Don't make your kids suffer living in a B&B indefinately while you hold out for something you probably won't get anyway, grow up.

bellissima · 22/12/2009 17:02

A council house tenancy is indeed yours for life, and this tends to create shortages of decent social housing, as those on 'good estates' just stay (or exercise right to buy) as their circumstances change. Problem is kicking out people can also be rather brutal and create great discontent even if they are a bit more prosperous, so it's something govts tend to shy from.

But note that I said 'good estates' - the effect of the shortage of social housing is that there are already fewer and fewer of these and the OP and her children (lets leave aside the DH for the time being!) are just as likely to end up somewhere horrible. Tbh, leaving aside the question of potential fraud (which I'm afraid I think it is, if you are carrying his child and planning on living together once you have secured the place - although technically I suppose lots of people get away with it) I really wouldn't be optimistic about your future as a family. You say you've left a job for 'depression' - not a great starting point for the 'accident'. No I'm not suggesting that you end the pregnancy, but I think you need to think about more things than securing a 4 bed house. Sorting debts is a good starter, maybe asking for some counselling (being pg should give you some priority) and trying to get a decent flat might be a good starter to reflect on the longer term. If DH is inevitably 'going bankrupt' maybe you can all relocate.

purplepeony · 22/12/2009 17:04

Herbal- thank you- I am glad I am not alone in trying to make this point.

The whole point of the post is that the word officially is in inverted commas- Marantha- surely you know why people do that?

The whole point of her post is that she wants to deceive- getting bogged down with is he livng there at the present time, or what such and such rules say, is not the point at all!

purplepeony · 22/12/2009 17:07

And Marantha- don't start having a shot at me- you are the only one here who is supporting the OP_ and it's because you have missed the point.
99% of posters here DO agree with the things I said and are saying so themselves!

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 22/12/2009 17:12

pp, I am with you too

the Op is fully aware of the level of deception she is planning to commit

legal ? moral ?

who gives a shit...

the fact is, it is fully premeditated

marantha · 22/12/2009 17:13

I don't give a monkey's -as Maggie Thatcher once said- you can be in a minority of one and still be right.
IF -and I doubt it actually some people have a heart- I am the only supporter of the OP here so be it. I don't care.
The OP can only be reasonably accused of fraud if partner moves in with her and she fails to declare it and not BEFORE.

RnB · 22/12/2009 17:15

YABU to expect a 4 bedroom house - definitely.

However YANBU to apply as a single person, as yo have just got back together, your dh are not living together and he is not contributing.

If however you get your council house and then 5 minutes later you move your dh then YABVVU

purplepeony · 22/12/2009 17:15

Marantha- you aren't the OP too are you?
you have a very warped and blinkered view of morality. The means justify the end is what you seem to be saying. Or you just don't get the point.

Thanks AnyF

pooexplosionsonthedustyroad · 22/12/2009 17:17

Actually marantha you are wrong. "Living together as husband and wife is not the same as being husband and wife, and when you are in fact married there is an assumption of co-habiting.
Unless you are legally seperated, and can prove it, the assumption is that you are a couple. The OP is married, pregnant, and back together with husband, there is no way on earth she is a single parent, and she knows it. And the deciding officers will know it too.

As for "desperate situation", the OP hasn't a clue. A husband with a job, a decent income and a flat, 4 children....OP needs to get a grip and realise that many of us have less and don't lie and cheat the system because we fancy a 4bed house.
Feckless, is what it is.

purplepeony · 22/12/2009 17:21

I suppose the OP does not have to prove the new DC is her husband's? what if she says the milkman knocked her up?

pooexplosionsonthedustyroad · 22/12/2009 17:26

In the UK, a child born within marriage is legally the husbands unless proven otherwise.

GerbilMeasles · 22/12/2009 17:26

OK, as much as I don't want to be on the same side as Marantha because she's coming across as a complete ranting loon on the whole "I can define co-habitation, me" bit, I think I have to weigh in here for the OP. At the moment, she doesn't know for certain that she and DH/exDH/semi-detachedDH will get back together so at the moment she is a single parent and although we'd all hope that the DH/whatever is man enough to step up to the plate and fund the DCs he's fathered, we don't know that he will (tbh I have my doubts, if he's only prepared to get back with her "officially" once she's provided him with a nice four bedroom house). So the sensible thing to do is to keep her options open.

She's about to be evicted and the choice is either apply for social housing or get the DH/whatever to pay for a house they can all live in. Doesn't mean that I don't think she's playing with fire here, and doesn't mean that I think she'll end up living anywhere but a scummy B&B for months, but if she's prepared to put her DCs through all that in the hope of being given a (more stable) council tenancy, then that seems to be the choice she has. Crappy choice though.

HerbalHolly · 22/12/2009 17:26

I think marantha is the OP too!

brandybutterfly · 22/12/2009 17:37

herbal I do too.

purplepeony · 22/12/2009 17:39

Gerbil you are being too kind...
honestly!
If the OP had said "I am afraid my DH bless him, may not come back after all, and I will in fact be a single mum of 4 kids, so do you think I should try to get a council house..." yes, I might have been sisterly and said "Go for it girl".

But she didn't. She said "Is this fraud?".

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