Potential fraud?

[DontKnowWhatToDoNext]

I am prepared to be flamed so go ahead but WWYD in my situation?

In brief - DH and I split up last year. 6 months ago, I lost my job due to depression and have since started getting better, have been living on benefits since then with DH paying maintenance for our 3 DCs. I have been desperately trying to get another job but my sickness record at my last job has gone against me. Last month, I was given notice to quit my rented house because the landlord wants to sell - runs out end of Jan.

Over the last few months DH and I have been giving our relationship another go and fell into bed last month (definitely not planned) and I have just found out I'm pregnant which was not supposed to happen . We have discussed it at length and want to get back together (we split up because we have been through a lot of shit over the last few years and blamed each other and basically were hating each other all the time). Time apart has helped sort that out and he has been round almost everyday to see the kids so they have not been that badly affected.

Now I had been to the council (before I found out about the pregnancy) and told them that I am about to be made homeless and they basically said that I would have to find another private rent or they would put me in a B&B.

Now bad as this sounds, I want to try for a council house (even if it means a B&B for a few months as the rents are so high in this area (1000 for a passable 3 bed and now I will need a 4 bed which will be about 1200) so do not intend to get back with DH 'officially' until this happens. DH works but only brings in about 1800 a month and we will never be able to live on his wage in private rented especially as I won't be able to work with a baby and I can't stand the insecurity of having to move all the time (we have moved 3 times in the last 3 years). I am also bankrupt and will not be able to private rent unless I have a guarantor which I don't! Part of the reason for the problems with DH and I were financial as we lost everything (including our own home) when his business went under a few years back. He will also have to go bankrupt soon as his debts have been hanging around and with another child to pay for, he will not be able to pay them.

DH has his own flat and is not actually living with me so AIBU and a total scumbag to try and get a council house as a single parent??

I'm not saying it's OK to commit fraud- you are twisting my words.
I am saying that all the OP did was ask an opinion on Mumsnet and as far as I'm concerned that's NOT tantamount to fraud.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

I don't expect a public forum to be confidential at all, what I would WISH is that people were intelligent enough to realise that asking an opinion is not fraud.

I can ask you here if you think it is OK for me to steal.
You can say, "No, it's not OK".

End of. If you went to the police and said "by the way, so-and-so asked me if it was OK to steal?" They'd look at you and say, "Yes, madame, but has this person ACTUALLY stolen and have you evidence for this?"

It does not mean that I am actually GOING to steal, does it?

I am all too aware that very few people on this site are charitable and indeed in real life. In my line of work, I see how vicious and uncaring people can be of others.

I genuinely do not know whether she was seeking advice or not and nor does anyone else here.

Marantha- this is for you- ""postings are open for all to see. Please note that Mumsnet has non-exclusive copyright in all submissions to Mumsnet Talk, and reserves the right to edit and re-publish these in print form""

and they do publish them. I have read The Times with a whole feature taken from MN posts.

Also, if you do a google search on certain topics- such as How Can I Get a 4 bedroom council house...." it is possible that this topic will appear.

Nothing is a secret on the WWW.

Marantha- you are incredibly naive.

You are also being very good at twisitng words yourself. Or trying to. Or trying to split hairs.

Asking for an opinion is not committing fraud. True. Telling the world and his wife how you intend to commit fraud is another matter. And as the poster has come back to say she has been to the council and supposedly told them half the truth- or her version of events- to get her house, then that appears to be fraud.

I really don't know why you are banging on about this any more. It's not really relevant. The questions was "is this fraud" - and 99% of responders said "yes."
End of.

Not as naive as you purplepeony.

Split hairs, indeed. What do you think the LEGAL profession is for if not to split hairs?

Presumably you have no faith in them, either.

You've agreed with me- all I wanted was for you to agree that asking for an opinion is not fraud. That is all.

purplepeony you are incredibly naive, too.

You are so stupid that you do not realise that words are mere words in life and that it is ACTIONS that count.

Sure, I suppose IF poster was NOT anonymous AND she did something illegal this OP's question could back used to back up a court case- but, in itself- as it stands- it means diddly squat.

It's not fraud UNTIL they're actually living together and he pays her maintenance and she DOESN'T declare it, anyway. Dummies.

Read the OP again. She asks if she's being unreasonable and a scumbag for trying to get a 4 bedroom house as a single parent, when she has been back in a relationship with her husband for several months, and intends to 'officially' get back with him once she has the house she wants, funded by other people who go to work.

The answer is, quite simply, yes. She is a scumbag. I don't believe for a second that she genuinely was seeking advice, because when people told her what she didn't want to hear, she became abusive and frankly quite daft.

And aside from all this, she sounds an utter mess, unable to hold down a job or even contemplate working when she has children, she and her husband have masses of debt, and she can't even stop herself getting pregnant.

So let's not got hung up about whether it's technically fraudulent or not - the woman sounds like a total loser and I feel very sorry for her children.

Coming back to this (stupid me), but for any criminal act, you need to have the act itself (actus reus) and the mental element, the intention to do so (the mens rea). Depending on what the crime is, actions do not necessarily count. You have all the ancillary offences, so things like conspiracy, where you don't actually have to have done something, only plan to, and you can be prosecuted for this and be jailed (obviously, again, this depends on the crime). As I said above, depending on what the OP has discussed with her DH, they could be found guilty of conspiracy to commit a fraud.

And yes, I am not a criminal lawyer, but do have legal training and did do criminal law as a course back in the day.

Exactly, Violet.

marantha-if you want to be lawyer, train as one!

I accused you of naivity for 2 reasons;
1 You think that posts on MN are "safe" from scrutiny by anyone.

2 You seem to be unabLe to read and understand the first post- in which the poster asks "What would you do if you were me"- if that is not asking for advice, I don't know what it is! And also the fact that the OP FFS suggests she is about to commit fraud. No one else suggested that- she did it first!

What point exactly are you trying to make now?

The bottom line is that the OP was thinking about twisting the facts to get a 4 bed house. No, talking about it is not a crime, but if she goes ahead and does it, then the evidence is here that she was planning it- and it was done out of ignorance for example. It was cooly planned and premeditated.

I amnot going to post anymore on this-or reply to any of your posts- the whole thread has moved into a riduculous pseudo high court drama way removed from the original question.

My only comment on this whole mess, is this:

Not only is this a public forum, in that nothing posted here is truly private, not only does MN own the copyright to everything typed and, therefore, the right to do whatever the hell they like with the stuff, including publishing for profit, but if they ever encounter what might be evidence of criminal activity and FAIL TO REPORT IT, they, themselves, may possibly be breaching the law.

Whether or not the OP, in this case is guilty/not guilty/whatever is not the point I am trying to make here.

MN are in no way protected from the consequences of with-holding information pursuant to a criminal matter, in the way that a doctor, say, is. And neither is anyone else who uses the forum.

Cyber-based evidence is becoming more and more a feature of criminal prosecution and law. Presumng to post something even remotely dodgy on a forum like this under the assumption of privacy is daft... because, if no one else, the moderators would have to obey any demand for the information. And they would. They're not going to risk criminal prosecution themselves for the sake of a website frequented by people they've never met.

I just love the way that some posters will just reduce this sort of discussion to pathetic name calling . My 4 year old is occasionally heard referring to people as "dummies" hey ho and here was me thinking this was somewhere for intelligent adults to have sensible debates !!! Hey ho merry christmas everyone

OP, you might be best getting this thread deleted

oh, and finding yourself a conscience would be good too

merry xmas

I posted before about my falling down house that we cant really afford and how we would love a council house for security.

AIBU "officially" leave my DH, declare myself homeless, get a council house, then decide to get back with DH so he can move in too?

i would avoid council housing at all costs. Inevitably they will house you somewhere dodgy. The good places are long gone and stay in the family!

As others have suggested. On his wages and the fact you should get some benefits you should be able to get a smaller house. Once in you can get on the council house waiting list or try a housing association.

Try a credit union for a loan for the deposit. Go to CAB and explore your benefit options. Are you on benefits now? If not, where is your wage in all this.

I am always amazed at how self-righteous people get about 'their' taxes.

I really can't get that worked up about it. Housing is a right not a privilege imo and yes, people should feel a sense of entitlement when it comes to being able to house their children.

How dare you want to raise your LOs in a decent house with some security of tenure!!!

I'm adding myself to the 1 per cent on this thread.

I pay taxes too and we live on a £1800 a month salary. We live in a shit area and I'd love to move but can't afford it.

But who knows what the future could bring? One day I might need a council house and thank goodness the option is there if we need it.

i wouldn't judge anyone for trying to get the best for their family, especially if the relationship isn't that secure.

Put your wigs and gavels away! There, got it off my chest

With respect "wegotta", I think you have missed the point fo the original post and all the others here. have another shuffty.

The poiny is wegotta, is that one day you MIGHT need that council house, but the OP has beaten you to it through deception. So YOUR family will be the one in B&B accommodation.

havent read the whole thread BUT in my opinion YABU . You will be getting a house that someone else may REALLY need.

Your husbands income is roughly the same as mine, we have three children and pregnant with our fourth and live in the south east. We have a DECENT three bed house (rented)for £650 a month. OK if we lived 20 miles down the road it would be more like £800 (and i would live to live there but we cant afford it so dont!).

There are cheap areas EVERYWHERE - move there.

Three beds is plenty for four (or more) children they just have to share.

£1800 a month is very very easy to live on

If you are in a relationship with your husband he should be paying for you and his kids.

fernie3
I agree from a moral point of view a man should support his offspring.

However, this is not how the dwp see it- if it did, nobody would have support as a single parent, they would have to stick by their husband no matter what.

My question is this: why should a person's sex life matter as regards the financial support they receive?

I maintain that as long as husband is not living with poster nor providing her with extra maintenance than she is declaring to the dwp, it is not fraud.

Who cares that she is sleeping with her or not?
It is irrelevant; it is the financial aspect that counts.
The dwp itself recognises this- they are not allowed to ask about a couple's sex life.

It is interesting to note that even in these supposedly enlightened, post-feminist times a man must be deemed as liable for a woman because he is having sex with her.

I am prepared that a high proportion of posters here would call themselves feminists, if they believe a man should support a woman because he is sleeping with her- they are not.

It is financial support that counts, not whether or not a couple are having sex or not.

Common sense dictates that it is completely unreasonable in a civil society to put CCTV cameras up in people's bedrooms to sex whether or not they are having sex- although I dare say a few posters here would like it happen.

Yes, I am pretty sure they would.

I do hope that some of the posters here who have been abusive to the OP have never divorced, because, I'll say this UNLESS your marriage was abusive, you are, in my eyes, worse than the OP.

marantha, let it go love

have a mince pie or summat