to think that this girl was right to let the door swing shut in the old lady's face?

[AKMD]

This was in Sainsbury's. The girl, I'd guess at about 14 years old, was coming out of the loos infront of an old lady with a zimmer frame. The girl held the door open for her (as you would for anyone IMO) and the old lady started screeching at her that she could manage very well on her own and to let the door go immediately! The girl was obviously hugely embarrassed but continued to hold the door open as letting go of the door at that point would have meant it hitting the old lady, but the lady was screaming at her at the top of her voice and being really rude, so after about 10 seconds of looking to be frozen in panic, the girl let the heavy door swing shut, with the predictable consequence of it knocking the old lady backwards (not onto the floor, just back). Cue immediate outrage from shoppers running to help said old lady and the girl bursting into tears. AIBU to think that she was right?

woah, not sure where assisted suicide comes into this debate expat, unless you're suggesting that upon being diagnosed with dementia, we should all go kill ourselves!

it comes in by the argument that 'we're all going to get old'.

some of us won't make old bones.

did i suggest everyone kill themselves?

distinctly not. i wrote that what people chose to do is their business, but i do think it should be an option.

Thats all fine and dandy but i didn't think we were talking about everyone's right to die. We were talking about old people being rude vs having deteriorated mental health. just think it's a bit random your dragging euthanasia into it!

I am happy to have Expat drag almost anything into a thread...she has a way of doing it which enamours her to me

well i'm no thread police! just thought it odd. Cary on......

Carry*

Um, okay, little miss moderator. 'We' discuss many things on this board.

The discussion has mentioned dementia many times.

There was a suggestion that perhaps we should put up with behaviour like this person's because we're going to all get old.

Well, some of us won't.

And some of us won't get like this from dementia because we will top ourselves if we get it.

And we feel all of us should have the right to do that legally via assisted suicide.

There, teacher.

I'll raise my hand next time.

problem is, by the time you have dementia, you aren't in any fit state to organise an assisted suicide. I know that's not exactly a cheery Christmas thought...

My mother has given me STRICT instructions that if she goes doolally, I am to 'knock her on the head' sharpish. She is very keen to avoid institutions or, worse, my sister (a nurse with experience of demented elderly people) taking her on. Not that my sister isn't wonderful but my mother can't bear the humiliation, even though we've pointed out (hopefully) she wouldn't be aware of it (although horribly that isn't always the case).

Her views are formed by having her senile grandmother living with her as a child. Sent her own mother into breakdown.

'problem is, by the time you have dementia, you aren't in any fit state to organise an assisted suicide. I know that's not exactly a cheery Christmas thought...'

Not always. Terry Pratchett, for example.

At the same time, edam, I think it's important for people like your mother to have their wishes respected, too, the same way I think it should be totally wrong for family members to be able to override a person's desire to be an organ donor and I am a strong proponent of living wills.

Sure, she might not be aware of it, but that's not the point. She feels she'd rather go on her own terms.

I find the right to die on par with abortion rights, I really do. A person's inaliable right to make decisions for him/herself when he/she is possessed of a sound mind.

Yep.

I hope it was a bad fall.

agree with you about the right to die being a basic human right akin to abortion.

But Terry Pratchett has a very, very unusual form of Alzheimer's. Most people don't have his level of functioning. IIRC his has started at a specific place at the back of the brain.

I'm glad that in the US Living Wills are very well recognised, even by courts.

My parents have them in place, as well as medical POA for each other and to each of us in the case the surviving spouse should be incapacitated or killed at the same time.

Without these, I think my sister would be tempted to override their wishes. I understand why, but duty is more important than our own needs and wants.

My mother's mother died a shell of herself. It nearly killed my mother, who is the most contented person by nature I've ever met.

She never wants that for herself.

I've not been a good daughter, but if push comes to shove, I owe her that.

What's most important about an increasingly ageing population is that we all start talking about what will or might happen.

Stop dismissing it as negative or morbid and really discuss it and think about it.

Expat, you may want your right to die, but I want to be sure there's a right to live for those who want it. In the Netherlands, where assisted suicide is legal, there have actually been demonstrations at hospices where pro-suicide people have accused the hospice staff of denying people their right (or perhaps obligation) to die.

Not everyone wants to suicide, and those who want hospice care should have their wishes respected.

But, back to the topic. At 14 most people don't have the experience to deal with these kinds of weird situations. I teach my DCs to be kind and considerate, and at the ages of 9 and 6 they will hold doors open, etc. I agree that the only thing that was wrong was to let the door go without ensuring it closed gently, but again, that's where experience would come in.