to think that this girl was right to let the door swing shut in the old lady's face?

[AKMD]

This was in Sainsbury's. The girl, I'd guess at about 14 years old, was coming out of the loos infront of an old lady with a zimmer frame. The girl held the door open for her (as you would for anyone IMO) and the old lady started screeching at her that she could manage very well on her own and to let the door go immediately! The girl was obviously hugely embarrassed but continued to hold the door open as letting go of the door at that point would have meant it hitting the old lady, but the lady was screaming at her at the top of her voice and being really rude, so after about 10 seconds of looking to be frozen in panic, the girl let the heavy door swing shut, with the predictable consequence of it knocking the old lady backwards (not onto the floor, just back). Cue immediate outrage from shoppers running to help said old lady and the girl bursting into tears. AIBU to think that she was right?

I work in the care sector and it is very sad that there is not more understanding of the different types of mental conditions that older people have. There has been some mention of dementia on this thread but lots of older people have forms other than Alzheimer's and quite a few have mental deterioration following strokes, or a series of "mini-strokes" as there is not much that medical science can do to cure these sort of problems they seem to slip through the net a lot. Perhaps this lady had the form of deterioration where the bit of the brain that causes inhibition is impaired. Some people who have been caring and loving members of society become really rude and unpleasant when this happens. You can't lock people up or insist they have a companion when they go out unless they are clearly lacking in mental capacity to make their own decisions. I suppose my answer to the OP is that schools should cover the problems of ageing in PSE so they can understand older people, and then the girl might have understood and kept the door open regardless.

Jux the girl is a child, put yourself in a position of a 13/14 year old mbabey younger, instead of speaking through an adults perspective. The girl did not deliberately slam the door out of spite and nastiness she was been verbally abused and out of shock and fright let the door go quite rightly so. She is only a child therefore a minor and is being verbally abused by an adult. Damed if you do, dammed if you dont. How do you know she would be arrested. it is really sad when nobody came to help her yet critise her when she did what in effect she was told to do by an aggressive and abusive adult.

YANBU, if I was in that girls position I would not only have let the door go I would have given it a push.

Yes i totally understand veryconfused but also this lady might have also been a rude adult with no condition. Even if they had been educated at school about dementia and alzheimers, when confronted face to face the child might not do what has been taught to them. It is hard for an adult let alone a child to be sympathetic and understanding when being shouted at and sworn at. i used to work in the care sector it has taken me a while to develop a thick skin to the shouting and name calling that happens, so to expect a child to

YABU, two wrongs don't make a right

To be honest, I wouldn't assume the old lady had a mental condition, it isn't the norm you know!

Yes but this girl did not do it on purpose and let it go probably of fright madreinglese.

AKMD??? what happened afterwards? or... did this actually happened or are we having an argument to a hipothetical situation?

No I don't think the girl did it on purpose, she was stuck in a crap situation, but OP suggested the old lady deserved knocking over because she was rude and I disagree.

Weird. So there was no adult standing about who could have intervened to help this girl when she is standing there holding a door open for an old lady and being screamed at? They were near enough to start having a go at her afterwards but not near enough to help her out when she obviously didn't know what to do.

Shopping gets more and more like a combat sport.

having worked with the public when I was 16-21, I can say that people screaming at you is not nice at all. I lost count the amount of times I cried on my till after being screamed at by someone, when I first started there.

Poor girl, I would have cried too

I'd imagine the surrounding adults were as shocked as her!

YANBU

yes two wrongs dont make a right but at that age having someone holler at you to let go you just would, and i can imagine she was so shocked by the ladys manner she didnt think further than just letting go!

OP- what happened next??? was anyone nice to this poor child?

'that schools should cover the problems of ageing in PSE so they can understand older people, and then the girl might have understood and kept the door open regardless.'

I don't see where it's a school's job to teach people that they have to put up with abuse from someone just because they're old.

Personally, I would be horrified at this, as to me it opens up some vulnerable young people to potential abuse.

It's bad enough dealing with bullying from people their own age without telling them on the other hand, 'Oh, just take it from any old person because they may have dementia.'

Schools have enough on their hands without having to instruct on all the ills of society.

Oh for heaven's sake! All I'm saying is that if the old lady had been knocked over by the door then the person who let hte door go would have been responsible for the door knocking the old lady over. I'm not saying the girl was completely unjustified I simply said that she was lucky the door didn't hurt the woman badly, because letting go of the door would have been hte cause of the old lady's hurt, and the person letting go of the door would have been responsible for it.

I also said I felt sorry for the girl. I do. She was caught in a dilemma, but in my opinion, made the wrong call - entirely understandably, and if she'd been my daughter I would not have told her off or punished her, but once the whole saga was over, I would have said that she would have to suffer the slings and arrows etc and should have just kept on holding the door.

poor girl, what a terrifying experience for her. She's totally not at fault, and I hope someone reassured her afterwards.

I have to disagree with you Expat, the stats on elderly mental health speak for themselves. At the age of 80 and beyond, some 60% of elderly people will have some form of dementia (figure from memory.)

So yes, given the huge increase in people surviving to age 70 and beyond, the public (including teenagers) need to be aware of dementia. After all, it will happen to someone in every family.

having worked with both teenagers and the elderly - if the old lady cannot go out without verbally abusing passersby, she shouldn't be going out without a support worker. I completely utterly understand the issues of demetia and brain injury, and I stand by what I say. If she can't cope, she shouldn't be coping alone.

The teenaged girl reacted appropriately for her age and expected maturity levels - in fact, above and beyond the call of duty. She's 14, not 40. She made a judgement under stress and decided to follow the instruction being screamed at her.

Some charming terminology used to describe elderly people here - old bint , old boot and so on.

I think this lady was, in all likelihood suffering from mental impairment, or a mental illness - probably dementia (I am a Clinical Psychologist - used to specialise in working with Older Adults). This sort of behaviour is not normal for older people - it is pure prejudice to believe that older people are are just "miserable".

I do feel very sorry for the teenager though - it's horrible to be shouted at by anyone, but especially when you are trying to do the right thing.

Agree with those saying that people with dementia need a hell of a lot more help and support.

Oh, and I agree with pag - and I see her special needs card and raise her neurological impairment.

No of course not all elderly people are rude and miserable i know some lovely people, some though are and it is no excuse. As one poster said a child is told not to take abuse at school it is bullying, why is this any different just because it is from an elderly lady. Why because an older person is rude does it have to be because they have dementia or mental illness, some are just not very nice and its their character. But if they do have dementia or Alzehimers than they should not be out on their own without a carer and support, as they pose a risk to themselves and others as is shown.

We only described that elderly lady as old bind, boot etc because of her appaling behaviour, of course we do not go round calling the elderly those things, just that behaviour made some of us a bit

pigletmania - if they are rude because it is their character (which I agree is sometimes the case), then it follows that them being old has nothing to do with it - so why did you use the term old biddy and old bat ?

If age is not relevant then don't use it as a decriptor. Other wise then we'll be saying that it's OK to call someone a black git of a gay wanker.

X posted with you piglemania.

Also, meant to type descriptor, not descriptor

Jeez, my typing is up the spout !!!

Becasue that particular lady was being rude and her behaviour was appaling, if that had been a young person being rude and aggressive i would have referred to them as a yob. it was becasue the lady was rude not because they were old