AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live like this?

[LetThereBeRock]

I know this could be a controversial topic, most likely will be,and each to their own, none of my business etc but I really can't understand it.

A friend is getting married soon.She's a real bibliophile,as is her soon to be dh, and has asked for several books on her wedding list.

However some of the books she has asked for are rather odd,The Surrendered Wife for example, The Politically Incorrect Wife,Liberated Through Submission and similarly titled books.

I've Googled them and the lifestyle they advocate certainly isn't one that I agree with or would care for.

An example from The Surrendered Wife ' surrendered wife always says yes and is always available for sex."'

I thought at first that the wedding list was a bit of a joke, but I've spoken to her since,albeit briefly, and apparently it's not.

So AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live a submissive life, and AIBU to think that's it rather odd to request such things on one's wedding list?

I

We would be living in a tent if I surrendered the finances to DH.

There is such a thing as personal choice but my experience- and I know it is only that- is that women who choose to buy and follow such books are more likely to be vulnerable to being amde to be submissive even against their will.

As in the case of my friend whose DH was taken to prison for adecade last week and who is now entering witness protection

Extremeof course but nonetheless as Is aid,my experience, and my experience is that I would not wish to be with a man that wanted this sort of widfe.

but with the OP, I would simply get them something conventional and leave it at that.refuse to be complicit in something you disagree with of coutrse, but dont' cut yourself off JIC it is a signal of bad news- what may matter is that you are there in ten years if things do go badly awry.

I'd like to emphasise my repeated use of if.

dittany - what are your views on s+m relationships and master/slave relationships, do you think these are disgusting as some people in the world are oppressed.

Actually dittany hate to burst your bubbble but some women like to be submissive. And are you seriously saying that women always say no to sex when they don't want it/are tired etc? A lot of women give their husbands sex when they themselves aren't particulary bothered, or their DH sex drive is higher than theirs. Would you say they were being dominated and abused? A lot of women withdraw sex also to punish their husbands. Now I would say that was dominating as it is a means of diliberately using sex as tool to get what you want.

And god lots of people from both sexes sometimes pretend to agree for the sake of peace.

This is the problem i have with feminism sometimes in that I think it can occasionally be one dimensional. If a woman chooses to embrace a way of living (although they've only ordered a book so aren't necessarily choosing anything) that appears anti-feminist, stepford wifeish she is flamed for bringing down the cause. Well let those who want to champion the cause do so and let those who want to live they way they want do so.

So what you're really saying, Dittany, is that only women who happen to agree with your own particular set of opinions deserve to reap the benefit of the feminist agenda.

i wonder how many men read self help books aimed at changing their behaviour to make for a smoother and happier relationship with their OHs.

Are there any such books? These things are usually aimed at women aren't they.

Dittany, you are right our grandmothers fought for the right to vote, equal pay, education and not to be raped in marriage. This was the original ethos of feminism - equality.

Nowadays what are you actually fighting for?

Is it the ability to be able to objectify men? yes, we have achieved that. A lot of us women now do that quite happily, yet in turn we expect to not be objectified (one good example is the diet coke break advert - COMPLETELY objectified men).

Is it the ability to NOT have a choice about going back to work after having a baby? It seems to me that feminists think that women should return to work and get the same remuneration as men. Taking time off work for any period of time will affect a pay rise as it is impossible to keep up to date with developments, also priorities change once you have a child. Do you really want to sit and work the impossible hours that a man in the same job might do and not spend time with your children?

To me feminism is about the choice to do things. I want to stay at home and look after my children, I want to vote (but if I don't have any views I don't have to) and there is no way that having this choice is being treated as a second class citizen.

2kidz I understand what you mean, its something I see on the SAHM/WOHM debates sometimes: an idea that if you choose to be a SAHM then you are antifeminist and letting down the cause- not so, part of the joy of equality is being able to make your own decisions.

There is nothing worng with choosing this lifestyle, aslong as it is something you genuinely want, but I do think more naturally vulnerable women would be more likely, and I think I might see it as a red flag to keep an eye. It would worry me as well if a child in the relationship was growing up thinking it was the only option as well, as uninformed use of the books would be a throwback; there would have to be some education for me to be comfortable.

Not that in the end my being comfortable has any real relevance, just eprsonal feelings.

I wonder if people would excuse these books if 'woman' was substituted for 'black person'.

Jesus, don't some of you know what life was like for our 'surrendered' predecessors?

Oh, and ALi, I am also a SAHM. I still value my right to vote, own property, have an education, a bank account, not be raped in marriage, have rights wrt my own dcs, etc, etc.

Feminists do not want men to be objectified either. That is a complete nonsense. NOONE should be objectified.

No Dittany, I believe in feminism that has achieves equality.

I do not believe in feminism that seeks to make women more equal than men

shudder

I find it sinister.

What type of feminism makes women more equal than men?

"I believe in feminism that has achieves equality"

That would be Feminism then. So look! you do believe in it after all. Hurrah!

'womem more equal'

Em, how? Examples?

I've yet to see any evidence.

Dittany,

Feminism has changed over the years.

It is outrageous to equate the more extreme views of feminists today with the original feminists and suffragette movement. Those women risked everything to gain important basic rights. Feminists today (in the UK) risk little in order to try to further an agenda which goes way beyond equality.

I am a feminist in the sense of the original feminists, in that I want equality. That does not mean I have to embrace the "all sex is rape" dogma of the more radical fringe of the feminist movement.

This genre of writing doesn't advocate equality at all. I would be very wary of any man who was enthusiastic about his wife entering into this kind of ethos as a basis for marriage and I would think the Woman was lacking in self esteem.

It smacks to me of a Woman who is rather desperate to please her Man, and hang on to him for dear life. Really sad if the only way you can do this is to become some kind of subservient, passive recepticle of his "dominance".

Weird.

Ali, I don't think anyone here is of the opinion that all sex is rape.

...and I haven't heard any extreme views either.

"All sex is rape" - do some people seriously think that is what modern feminism is about?

I can (kindof) see a place for books like this (a bit!!!)

I earn more than DH on 2 days a week, doing what would be considered by anyones standards a very masculine job.

But sometimes I do consider that he goes out, earns a good amount 5 days a week and still has me niggling at him. He is not exactly 'king' in his home and I wonder that I haven't pushed the equality thing so far that he has become unequal.

I am about to have the next year off work as I am not allowed to work where we are emigrating to, and it will be interesting to see how it will be to be 'supported' by him and be 'just' a wife and mother. Part of me wants to become a little bit on the surrendered side of things as I do feel as though he is bottom of the pile in our house.

That is not to say that I am not a feminist. Dittany, you are very eloquent in your postings and I agree with pretty much all you say but can also see it from a different side.