AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live like this?

[LetThereBeRock]

I know this could be a controversial topic, most likely will be,and each to their own, none of my business etc but I really can't understand it.

A friend is getting married soon.She's a real bibliophile,as is her soon to be dh, and has asked for several books on her wedding list.

However some of the books she has asked for are rather odd,The Surrendered Wife for example, The Politically Incorrect Wife,Liberated Through Submission and similarly titled books.

I've Googled them and the lifestyle they advocate certainly isn't one that I agree with or would care for.

An example from The Surrendered Wife ' surrendered wife always says yes and is always available for sex."'

I thought at first that the wedding list was a bit of a joke, but I've spoken to her since,albeit briefly, and apparently it's not.

So AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live a submissive life, and AIBU to think that's it rather odd to request such things on one's wedding list?

I

I can't help feeling that judging a book by it's title alone is a little strange. But ok. Hopefully someone else on this thread will appreciate the suggestion.

There is a book called "liberated through submission"?? and people buy it...?

Yes. Why not?

It was recommended to me. Which seems a fairly good way to decide to read books.

dittany just read your 'hubby must be proud' comment - that is jumping on stereotypes of what a tradtional wife's husband is like. You don't like feminism being stereotyped so don't do it to others and target thier partners. Otherwise you may find your husband/partner being called a weed that needs to grow a pair. Both totally unpleasant and uncalled for.

I have read books on feminism Dittany, I suggested that one for a different viewpoint on it.

mrsrigby, I'm really truly not trying to be rude, especially what with you being in mensa and all, but your post about the suffragettes? it wasn't the same woman who threw herself under the horse and then starved herself. Especially what with her being dead and all. There was more than one of them. Quite a lot in fact .

And to those asking what modern feminsts want? Well I'm still waiting for equal pay, not to be at a massively higher risk of being killed by a partner than a man, some reproductive rights........

Just to stick up for myself, have not insulted feminists but just saying that feminism often sadly reaches a state in the west where it is used as an insult towards shrill women who are intent on shouting as loud as they can without taking a second to listen to others, especially when those others are agreeing with them. I said my admission was very shamefaced and it was a long time ago - I don't routinely go around calling people feminists as something bad.

I'm not sure I'm eloquating properly, but I think it is a movement that has vital importance but the fringes of inevitable extremists (as with ANY movement) make the rest of the movement suffer by thrusting opinions upon others without taking the time to listen to those others - much as I've heard catholics, muslims, vegetarians, lesbians ete insulted in the same way.

Am also now bowing out as a thread that initially actually really made me think and question and be intrigued on many levels has become a boring degradation that isn't even about extolling the virtues of a movement that frankly needs support not fundamentalism

I'm a feminist, and I love men! And I am mostly a SAHM, and feel very happy with it. And my dp does work all day, cooks when he gets home, and he is hairy-chested and thrusting I'm not bragging, he's a total pain in the arse sometimes too.

There are three things on this thread that are "really" irritating:

"Feminists are man-haters" - no, feminists are people who want equal rights for women in society.

"No reason for feminists nowadays/going to far now" - not true, dittany has explained why very well IMO. Domestic abuse, rape, unequal salaries before and after having children, 2 British women killed per week in UK by partners/husbands. You might be happy in your nice wee kitchen, but what about all these women??

"Women have to do it all now and are exhausted" - exactly, another reason why feminism is still needed.

"Men and women are not equal/are programmed differently" (i.e. not identical) - well, of course we're bloody different! Do you people really not know the difference between "equal" and "identical"??? Both men and women need to have their different needs supported and defended by society so that neither gender is second-class - i.e. equal. Examples - we still need better childcare and better state pensions for women.

I'm amazed that so many women are more interested in falling for the propaganda and criticising feminists than improving society for the benefit of us all.

Oops, that's four things...well, time to go to bed!

Fair enough Dittany, sorry because you're probably right (text speak might make that sounds sarcastic, honestly it's not). I've been following the thread but not adding anything til late on so my thought process hasn't been recorded and so I probably come across as rude when I don't mean to be.

As I've said before I think you've made really concise and good arguements that have made me rethink how I would define myself, I've said several times that I think you're very much in the right, just asked you to step back a little because I think you might be taking some of the responses a bit personally. A lot of other people have agreed with you too, and your arguments aren't neccessarily that needed because you are making valid points.

good post pispirispis

Who are these extremist feminists of which you speak? Has anyone actually met one, or are they a figment of the fevered imagination of the Editor of the Daily Mail?

Actually, I have met one or two, but not since my Greenham Common days - and that was a very long time ago!

Will try not to be rude here but

You all saying about domestic abuse and all that..... uh, well duh..... that happens because some humans are violent and men usually have the upperhand on that one.... they usually are physically bigger and stronger....

Does anyone else see how stupid that is? You cant call that a feiminst issue... how is it?

More women are attacked than men because most women couldn't cause more damage to the man than he could to her physically....

Many beat men are missed because of that.

That will always be the case... If I tried to beat up my husband he would have no problem in just keeping me off.... If he tried to hurt me though he would have no problem causing serious damage..... that isn't to do with feminism, it has to do with violent men being more physically capable to inflict pain and harm than violent women are.....

You can change attitude towards women all you like (I think most decent men know it isn't acceptable to beat a women) but you will always have violent people... and men are simply more capable (again physically)

Fair enough on the pay front.... If I got payed less in a job because I was a women I would leave the job and find one that doesn't treat me like crap - simples.

That, however, is the only reason i see for being a 'feminist'. At school it was known by everyone that girls and boys were same. I don't think the younger generation see the same difference that you 'oldies' ((joke)) do. As yet I have not come across anything that I have been denied/treated differently because of my gender.

So as far as I am concerned.. Point in calling myself a feminist? No point. Thank you to women before us that have got us to the place we are now. I am satisfied here.

MTC - how can you say that women are more likely to get the crap beaten out of them because they are physically weaker, and then, say it's not a feminist issue. something shit (and wrong) is more likely to happen to a particular group because of a characteristic many of them have. how is that not a feminist issue? [genuinely baffled emoticon]

other aspects of your post are really naive. "If I got payed less in a job because I was a women I would leave the job and find one that doesn't treat me like crap - simples." oh so easy. just resign. and pay the rent/bills/mortgage with what until you find a job?

"As yet I have not come across anything that I have been denied/treated differently because of my gender." I can remember thinking that too when I was in my 20s. and it's a wonderful feeling and I'm pleased to hear it. but as you get older (and, for example, the pay gap between you and, if you have one, your male partner, widens. and the cost of childcare impacts you and your choices more than him and his, and your career grinds to a bit of a halt whilst his does not) you might start to think differently. I hope not. but even if not - see pispiri's and diattany's post re why feminism still mattters. it's not just about you.

naivety is often (but not always) age-related though. as you get older you see more of the world, including its shitty bits.

dittany - you've been doing a good job on this thread - against rather depressing opposition.

I don't see how it IS a feminist issue.... Surely that is just how it is because we are naturally smaller and not something you can change...... I don't understand how feminism could change it.. please explain...

Maybe I will see more as I get older. I am not denying that I haven't had loads of oppertunities to experience the difference...

Yes I would leave the job. Perhaps I am privillaged in that I could do so. Maybe that is a little bit of feminism in me?

Yes dittany I agree more young women are getting into feminism and I read you link.... I still don't see the appeal.

It says about education and expectation...

It was the girls pushed in our school and always the girls that did better.... That's the truth.