AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live like this?

[LetThereBeRock]

I know this could be a controversial topic, most likely will be,and each to their own, none of my business etc but I really can't understand it.

A friend is getting married soon.She's a real bibliophile,as is her soon to be dh, and has asked for several books on her wedding list.

However some of the books she has asked for are rather odd,The Surrendered Wife for example, The Politically Incorrect Wife,Liberated Through Submission and similarly titled books.

I've Googled them and the lifestyle they advocate certainly isn't one that I agree with or would care for.

An example from The Surrendered Wife ' surrendered wife always says yes and is always available for sex."'

I thought at first that the wedding list was a bit of a joke, but I've spoken to her since,albeit briefly, and apparently it's not.

So AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live a submissive life, and AIBU to think that's it rather odd to request such things on one's wedding list?

I

Mrs Rigby I am curious, why don't you believe in equality?

Oh ffs how stupid is it to think feminism is about standing up on a bus when you're pregnant?

Jesus wept.

Herbeatitude I used that illustration to contrast the idea that woman are the same as men. Festive !

"The thing is i feel that many people equate feminism with being the same as men...Whereas it ought IMO to be about being treated with equal respect in acknowledgment of our innate differences and preferences."

well said 2kidzandi. The whole point about any arguments on equality (race, disability, sexuality too) is about equal respect. treating people equally does not mean treating people identically.

in some circumstances equality means treating people the same - because their alleged differences are actually irrelevant. but in some cases, in order to treat people equally you have to treat them differently - hence women (and not men!) get time off work to attend ante-natal appointments; hence we have ramps outside buildings; and esl provision in schools.

those who try to discredit feminism are always keen to portray it as something that refuses to accept that men and women are different. they are showing complete ignorance of what equality and its proponents - including feminists - are all about.

So what is feminism these days? What are the goals? I don't mean "equality", I need something more specific than that.

2kidzandi I was excited by your first 2 paras which grasp a central tenet of equality arguments. but I'm not sure I get your 2nd 2 paras.

Can I just ask someone who understands these things- if this book is really about respecting each other in an equal way, why is it called The Submissive Wife and not The Submissive Partner? And do you think this couple would be equally happy to receive a book entitled The Submissive Husband?

I have namechanged to say that I pretty much live in a surrendered way.

I am very depressed by as a result and the impact on my children has been terrible.

The book should maybe include a chapter on how you can get control back if it all goes wrong, because I have no idea.

Ok, finished what I fucked off to do earlier.

I was going to namechange again so that I could show you an old thread of mine but because I don't have the same fears I had when I originally started it I'm not going to bother. Since this old thread I have been living exactly as I had hoped for in the first post. I have a wonderful relationship with DP (who I actually never announced has become my DH...woohoo ) and we are both reaping the rewards. I still work, I have not had a labotomy (sp?) and I am not in an abusive relationship.

I hope some of you will take the time to read the full thread to get a clearer idea of what makes women like me tick. Hope the link works.

here

BTW I've typed all of this without changing back to my usual name. Not trying to hide.

OP, I have read the Surrendered Wife, and it is actually rather good, and far more common sense than the ghastly title would lead you to suppose.
Disclaimer: I am going to bed now cos its nearl ymidnight here, and am not about to become the official mn apologist for this book (havent read rest of thread).

get her wifework or love is not enough or ball and chain etc

Well if nobody else does, MNC, I applaud you for admitting to what is apparently taboo.
My DH is an unreconstructed sort of bloke and our relationship also works better when I work with that rather than trying to fight it.

If bra-burning metrosexualism works for some then great for them. I'm quite happy to admit that I prefer dealing with the more traditionally "feminine" stuff like cooking and leaving DH to deal with keeping the car maintained and dealing with nasty stuff like bills. I'm quite capable of looking after myself (didn't live with anyone until DH and I got married 2 years ago when I was 32) so I don't really feel as if I need to prove anything to anyone.

Skimmed thread

I have read all sorts of things - including Nazi propaganda - doesn't make me a nazi. Maybe she is interested, or exploring different options

feminists wear bras a lot more than they burn them these days (and probably always did). femininsts are also "allowed" to like cooking and not like car maintenance. shit I hate paying bills and keeping tabs on our finance, but I'm still a feminist. portraying feminism as bra-burning and incompatible with enjoying cooking is missing the point. and really depressing.

I can't say i've read any of the books or literature talked about in these posts so i wouldn't like to comment but i remember when i got married the church gave us a booklet of suggested readings for during the service, one which included the line

`a silent wife is a gift from God'

Needless to say we didn't have that particular reading (DH couldn't guarrantee that he wouldn't snigger or snort loudly) and silence isn't one of my strong points

paperfrogs - does your dh/p know how you feel? he really needs to know if you want to start making changes.

Thanks Fibilou

Paperfrog are you saying you embarked on a simular lifestyle and it went wrong and is now being forced on you or are you being subjected to something which you never agreed to? Both are abusive situations just trying to get a little insight on your situation.

YOu could get her this OP. Wrap it up in pretty paper and put in a card saying 'So you get balanced coverage of the issues.

Though I'd be concerned about any female friend of mine who was talking about SUrrendered Wifery and marrying a rightwing religious nut. Negotiated BDSM relationships are one thing, 'traditional' roles enjoyed with mutual affection, respect and a large pinch of salt are another, but add supersition to an insistence on male superiority and you do have a recipe for sustained domestic abuse escalating to violence.

I'm a feminist and proud of it. In fact, women who say "I'm not a feminist, but..." make me want to shake them and stand over them until they've read some Betty Friedan and The Women's Room.

I bought the Surrendered Wife just before I got married after reading an article in the paper, ready to take the piss out of it tbh, and sadly, I couldn't. Whilst some chapters (eg on finances) weren't my cup of tea, I found it a fascinating book, and it has actually been surprisingly useful to me. My husband doesn't dominate me, but I don't dominate him either.

The others I couldn't comment about, but The Surrendered Wife is actually full of useful tips and gives a really interesting perspective on marriage. I can assure you I'm not some put upon 50s housewife; I'm a professional woman who works outside the home (not that SAHMs can't be feminists, etc etc) with a husband who does more than his share of domestic work including cooking and childcare. I think it's really helped, that's all. It surprised me.

I'm a feminist too and think the book makes some great points (though the title is shit). There's some quite good stuff in there about not nagging and praising instead (which we all know works with children) to encourage partners to do more of that behaviour.

There's a bit about divvying up responsibilities and not criticising or interfering with the way the other person does something.

And another bit which really struck home to me is not criticising your partners choice of clothes (which I find really hard as he is determinedly scruffy).

A lot of the points the book makes is ones that are made frequently on mumsnet - like there is one about letting you partner make their own choice of Christmas presents and taking no part in shopping for his family if you don't want to.

It is so easy in relationships to try and wrestle control - the message of the book felt very feminist to me, it said don't try and control your partner, don't dominate them, let them live the way they want. There was also a message about not nagging if they go out and get pissed with their friends and it said make the home a place they want to be - if they still choose to not be with you (cos they want to live another way) then leave as you're worth more.

It may be the way I read it too - and lets face it they're trying to make money so calling it a controversial title was probably deliberate.

Mabey she is interested in the topic, not necessarily one herself. I used to study sociology and the changing role of women throughout the centuries, some very interesting reading tbh.

I haven't bought my husband clothes, ever. If he wants to wear holey socks, that's his call; he's a grown man and I'm not his mother. He knows where M&S is. Though that may be laziness on my part, to be fair.

Agree re the title; definitely courting controversy. And it worked, clearly.

The gist of it is all about control. And that relinquishing control (about things you don't really need to be in control of) because your partner is above all a decent bloke who wants you to be happy. Don't be a shrew, basically. Trust him to do the right thing; stop trying to be in charge of everything because he is not perfect like you think he ought to be. A lesson in pragmatism, trust and compromise, I thought.