AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live like this?

[LetThereBeRock]

I know this could be a controversial topic, most likely will be,and each to their own, none of my business etc but I really can't understand it.

A friend is getting married soon.She's a real bibliophile,as is her soon to be dh, and has asked for several books on her wedding list.

However some of the books she has asked for are rather odd,The Surrendered Wife for example, The Politically Incorrect Wife,Liberated Through Submission and similarly titled books.

I've Googled them and the lifestyle they advocate certainly isn't one that I agree with or would care for.

An example from The Surrendered Wife ' surrendered wife always says yes and is always available for sex."'

I thought at first that the wedding list was a bit of a joke, but I've spoken to her since,albeit briefly, and apparently it's not.

So AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live a submissive life, and AIBU to think that's it rather odd to request such things on one's wedding list?

I

Wot dittany said.

Give a donation to the fawcett society, in her name.
She'll get a free "this is what a femanist looks like "t-shirt. Maybe she can read that instead.

Well this has certainly taken off. I've been busy so haven't had time to respond until now. I've just skimmed the thread so will have to catch up.

Hully There is a friend and there is a wedding list. If I simply wanted to ask about the book I could easily do so, as it is there's more than one book on the subject,though The Surrendered Wife seems to be the one being discussed,most likely because it's the most well known I guess.

She has 6 of these on her wedding list, out of 18 books. The others are all perfectly normal,coffee table type books which is why it surprised me that these were so casually included, but perhaps she just wants to explore it and isn't going to put it into practice, I hope.

Feminism imho isn't at all about hating men. Why any woman would be ashamed of calling herself one I've no idea. And how can anyone not believe in equality?

Those are rhetorical questions anyhow as I'll no doubt find answers,even if they still make no sense to me. once I read through the rest of the thread.

I'd get them some bondage gear to go with the books

And while we're here how the hell do you get an oyster open?

Bondage gear? I'd love to see her face when she opened that.

I wonder whether these men with the surrendered/traditional type wives are the ones who regularly visit a dominatrix for a bit of humiliation and domination?

It always seems to be the tory wives with the kinky husbands, must be the public schooling.

I had a good look at the "taken in hand" website a while back, while some of it is mildly appealing, if my husband ever decided I needed spanking as a punishment for doing something "wrong" , I'd be wearing his balls as earrings, much as I love a bit of sex-related spankery.

A partnership should be equal, each individual is as important as the other, either partner has the right to say no to sex.

I imagine most decent men want a wife with a mind of her own, not some simpering doormat who never has an opinion and goes through life with blind obedience?

I can be a feminist and still have " erotic tales of male dominance" on my Amazon wishlist.

iloveasylumseekers - how is saying to your dh "whatever you think," an adult-adult transaction? It doesn't make sense to me.

An adult-adult transaction is where both parties can freely state their opinion, without one immediately assuming the other is nagging or whatever.

If my dh takes a wrong turn while driving, why on earth shouldn't I say "you should have gone left, not right," or whatever to him. It seems the most sensible course of action to me, ensuring that we don't spend too long driving down the wrong road. It's hardly nagging.

What's wrong with saying "I disagree" to your dh? If I say "Whatever you think" to him while secretly thinking his idea is lunacy, I don't think I'm treating him as an adult - an adult can cope with a bit of constructive criticism. Of course it doesn't mean I should say to him "don't be such an idiot/lunatic", but I see no reason why I shouldn't tell him I disagree.

feminists don't ahte men, I am afeminsit with four sons and a ddh I adore-trust me we don't

I chatted to Dh about all this,and thought, and what I relaised was that a relationshipevolves to be what it needs: If either DH or I were submisive the other one would become a tyrant- we need each other to tell us to fuck off sometimes, to curb our worst traits. Both of us have had submissive type aprtners and it wasn't workable,it could have easily become unhealthy.

So it appears to me that if a relationship naturally evolves to have one partner naturally more assertive and the other is happy and the kids raised not expecting torule / be ruuled, then OK;moreconcerning though when a partner changes roles into something else,which is oging to upset the balance and I would think make dodgy results, abuse, marital failure more likely. Why on earyth would you want to marry someone then have them change? I know I'dbe really annoyed if dh decided to take on some new way of behaving, and id Dh wanted me to do that for him.... er no.

Anyone that quite fancies 'surrendering' obviously has mentalist tendencies.

Alex good post

Had I done the whatever you think bit with dh we'dnow be destitute,probably divorced; it took alot of 'I think that is a really bad idea...' with Dh before I realised he was at that timementally ill (severe depression,now doing well, yay DH). I also had to bully him into seeing a GP (yay me)- had I taken some kind of submisive role- God only knows.

Just in response the OP. If you don't approve of those books, rather than getting her something the total opposite of what she asked for, why not get her something else from the list of a book voucher?

Just strikes me as a little mean to use her wedding gift to make a point.

Don't worry I'm going to go with one of the 'safe' options. I'll get here some of the other books or the usual toaster,wine glasses, bowls etc that are also on the registry list.

"Don't worry I'm going to go with one of the 'safe' options. I'll get here some of the other books or the usual toaster,wine glasses, bowls etc that are also on the registry list."

That's good to hear

Have you had a chance to talk to her since you started the thread to find out why these books appeal to her?

I totally disagree with the comments that her list must be a cry for help - who's ever heard of a groom not seeing a wedding list, especially if he's supposed to be so controlling! OP I wouldn't personally be worried about her but glad you brought it up as the debate has been really interesting.

I have to admit to being guilty of occasionally throwing the word "feminist" around as an insult to shrewish, scary women much to my shame. It gets used as an insult too much today when women aren't needing to fight in the same ways to the same lengths as they have in the past - which is why I think it now gets a bad name. Also totally agree that feminism is still important in terms of other countries where atrocities far worse than English women have had to bear are still committed.

I think actually that everyone (aside from Mrs Rigby who I'm sorry but I'm hugely about) is in agreement but have all been hugely eloquent about their arguments - I'm actually really intrigued to read the book now, especially as some of the things people like ILAS have mentioned I do recognise as controlling behaviour that I don't like in myself in my relationship (also recognise some in DH too so Surrendered Relationship might be better in my case!), though I'm sure there'd be lots I'd take with a pinch of salt.

In all honesty it sounds like all those baby books I got so worked up about a year ago - eventually chucked them all out but a few common sense points have stuck in my head.

Or OP you could always buy her the Sadeian Woman instead...

ps YABU if you've not read the book and are judging it by the title and therefore making judgements about your friend (just to answer you question)

"Laura Doyle for example paints them as dimwits who can't be trusted to pay the bills on time and has all manner of stupid ideas. "

Where ? Quotes please

applauds dittany's last post

Really, the only reasonable time to say "Whatever you think," to dh is if we are out in a cafe and he says "Shall I have the choc ice cream or the caramel?" (So long as he doesn't try to stop me having the rich dark choc cake with cream )

erm, that would be dittany's post at 15:10

Dittany 100% with you all the way through this thread.

Also, can't help feeling the surrendered/submissive bit is also somewhat lazy. How easy to let the man take the responsiblity for everything...