AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live like this?

[LetThereBeRock]

I know this could be a controversial topic, most likely will be,and each to their own, none of my business etc but I really can't understand it.

A friend is getting married soon.She's a real bibliophile,as is her soon to be dh, and has asked for several books on her wedding list.

However some of the books she has asked for are rather odd,The Surrendered Wife for example, The Politically Incorrect Wife,Liberated Through Submission and similarly titled books.

I've Googled them and the lifestyle they advocate certainly isn't one that I agree with or would care for.

An example from The Surrendered Wife ' surrendered wife always says yes and is always available for sex."'

I thought at first that the wedding list was a bit of a joke, but I've spoken to her since,albeit briefly, and apparently it's not.

So AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live a submissive life, and AIBU to think that's it rather odd to request such things on one's wedding list?

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I'll have a chance to do so next week Kaloki as we've arranged to meet up for a coffee.

Ooh goody, so I'm now thick, dim and have mentalist tendancies.

And why so sceptical of me. Do you think I'm a man? Wish I was.

'or lose his job or let the bills go so long that the water gets turned off.'

I can't imagine ever laughing about either of those things,not even years after the event.
Weeping hysterically and/or being absolutely furious are the only reactions I could imagine having upon hearing that we'll have no water or that we've no money to pay the bills,to feed ourselves or to pay the mortgage in order to keep a roof over our heads.

Wow - what a thread. Very interesting.

I'm a feminist by the way and I don't conform to perceived ideas.

I have every right to be treated with the respect accorded to a man.... I have the right to earn an equal wage to a man doing the same job as I.... I have the right to know how to run a household (as I do).... I have every right to have access to as good an education as a man... I have the right to say no to sex (not that I have the choice).

As a lone parent, my life is lived as both a man and a woman. I am in charge of everything. If feminists hadn't pushed for the vote and equality, I'd be up shit creek - without a paddle. And so would my children.

Well I do declare!

Being happy and choosing to stay at home and look after your children isn't being submissive, it's doing what you want. Also choosing to return back to work after you have children doesn't mean you are a dominate wife. In my opinion this is what 'feminism' has brought about (a very multi faceted word that is - seeing that is can also be used to describe men hating women who don't shave as well as women who believe in equal rights)

However I don't think relinquishing ALL my opinions and ALL my feels to my husband to the extent that this choices override mine not matter what. A healthy relationship in my opinion is one where BOTH PARTNER'S opinions count and you are able to put forward your thought whether you are the man or the woman.

On the sex side of things if I am too knackered to have sex to the extent that I won't enjoy then I'm very sorry Laura whats-your-face it's not going to happen. If an period of abstinence occurs then you can bet your bottom dollar himself is going to pipe up about it (with exact amount of days, hours and minutes its been since) and it'll be talked about why it happened (and so resolved)

I whole heartedly disagree that a wife should be submissive and I fully agree that a wife shouldn't be fully dominated and, importantly I don't think it should be the other way around either NO ONE should be in a relationship where their opinions can't ever be voiced or even matter.

I'm interested to know in a same sex couple who, according to this book, is supposed to be the submissive one?

I am trying to think how my DH would react to 'whatever you think'. I think he'd feel quite nervous and wonder wtf I was up to . Or what was wrong with me. And seriously he is rubbish at budgetting. Which isn't a problem as I do it. Should I really leave it all in his hands and watch our finances go down with all hands? Why? Yes he woudl learn but meantime we'd be in trouble. He does some stuff. I do other stuff. That's how it works.

The surrendered wife is actually really good, not at all like it sounds. Dont know anything about the others though. The avail for sex thing makes more sense if you read the book, taking bits out of context isn't really useful. And it's by no means a Rule.

However, I do think they're really odd choices as wedding presents. They are abviously trying to make a challenging point. Weird. Buy her a cookbook instead and enquire no more.

I think the man-hating feminist thing comes from the radical lesbian separatist movement in the late 70's/early 80's. "True feminists" were supposed to shun blokes all together, one of the original Spare Rib collective actually left her family (and she wasn't "naturally" sexually attracted to other women.)

Dittany - spot on. Again.

I think the man-hating feminist stereotype was rooted in the likes of Valerie Solanas and her SCUM Manifesto. "All men are walking abortions" sounds pretty hateful to me.

If I replied "whatever you think" to my husband's pronouncements he certainly wouldn't think I respected him: he'd think I'd lost respect to the extent where I could no longer treat him like an adult. "Whatever you think", "yes dear, quite".

Some feminists, Dittany. I don't think anyone has suggested that all feminists are man-haters.

And maybe I've missed something but I haven't seen anything in TSW that actually suggests she's a second-class citizen...

Dittany, I'm not stupid. I know that there is a difference between fighting for women's rights (A Good Thing) and man-hating (A Bad Thing). But I disagree that there are "not any feminists" that also hate men. I'm sure it's a very tiny minority but there are some that do and I gave an example of one but there are others. Just like it's a very tiny minority of muslims who go on to be terrorists. Nearly all socio-political movements attract at least a few extremists no matter how worthy the core values are.

"Of course Laura Doyle doens't [sic] spell it out, but that's what she's advocating."

See, that's where I disagree again. And if you have a source for your claim it advocates "a woman who has to accept verbal abuse and deal with it by sucking up again" I'd love to see it.

I'll again add the caveat that I haven't read the whole book but what I have read matches (on the whole and albeit in different language) what I've read elsewhere about letting go of control, how healthy adult relationships form and the sharing of responsibilities. As has previously been pointed out, TSW isn't a book aimed at everyone or even every woman/wife. Just like Codependent No More isn't aimed at everyone. In both cases, those books are aimed at people who have a tendency towards martyrdom, who are having trouble with boundaries, who take on everything because they don't believe their partner is capable of anything, and who cannot let go. It's not about stifling oneself, it's about accepting that the other person in the relationship is a grown-up, too.

No, Dittany, I was likening the vast majority of feminists to the vast majority of muslims.

Sorry Dittany but I have no wish to continue this conversation with you. You're reading things into what I have said, and what others have said, that simply are not there.

Dittany a lot of what you're saying is true and right and made me realise I have never described myself as a feminist but believe in and stick up for the things you've talked about, and have happily married a man who does the same. However I do think you're reading into things a bit much and looking to be attacked - the vast majority of people on this thread agree with you. This is nowt to do with whether you're a feminist or not, but you're not reading what people are actually saying, just reading between the lines where there isn't anything to be read.

I've never come across the book but self-confessed feminists on this thread who have read it and advocate some of the things in it means it sounds like a gender nuetral version called the surrended relationship ought to be printed for some of the good sense philosophy it apparently presents.

I can't hand over the finances to DH, he wouldn't have an effing clue - I just bargained on and bought our first home together without him even viewing it til after our mortgage was approved! Sometimes that feels more like I have less control though and he has more freedom (though also all his earnings go into our joint account and all mine into my account, not quite sure how I managed to wangle that one!)