To think that it's just freaking WEIRD to express gratitude to a father for being at his dc's birth?

[megapixels]

A mum I know said she got her partner a gift and card to say thank you for being at their child's birth. Is it just me that thinks this is really odd? She said she is grateful that he wanted to be there, because many men don't bother . They are together by the way, he is not an ex.

Isn't it a sad world when men are expected to be useless dickheads and they get cards and gifts for being normal? Wouldn't any father want to be around when his child make their arrival, to want to be one of the first to see them, even if it's just to sit outside the ward (if they're squeamish or something). Whatever next, a father getting thank you tokens for attending school shows or parents consultations? For spending time doing family activities?

AIBU?

starkadder - in an ideal world all men would want to be at the birth but some don't and some are just traumatised by it.

I did see our DSs born but as alwayslooking said "I don't find birth amazing". I agree. It is just a process. For me it was boring, tiring and something to be got through with DW in the best way possible doing what little I could do to help her as and when she wanted it. She did not think it amazing either.

Holding DSs afterwards was amazing. I was in tears of joy and wonder at seeing them. I am not your average lentil weaving co-sleeping until they enter secondary school sort of bloke as you can tell.

"Cos she doesn't get any choice in the matter and they both agreed to have the child?"

Yes and presumably when they agreed to have the child the woman knew she would have to give birth - it's what happens. You CAN'T avoid it. The father not being present at the birth doesn't stop the nature going ahead as intended. If they AGREED to have the child she CHOSE to go through childbirth. That doesn't mean that he chose to be at the birth.

Wow, soooo much has happened since I was last here!
If anybody is interested, the guy that said men should not be there for their wives deliveries is called Michele Odent...
I caught some glimpses of whether a man should be there or not, and IMO, it depends on the man.
We have to remember that it wasn't that long ago that men weren't there because we had the women in the community and the midwives who were there for pregnancy AND birth, no matter what time of day it was!
These days, communities aren't close any more, and where mothers of mothers to be used to come and stay for weeks on end in order to help out etc and neighbours pulled together to provide meals and babysitting services...these things don't happen any more.
So we turn to our men, because we need someone to trust...even our midwives wont be there on the day, so we end up with people we have never met and don't trust and we need to feel safe.
If a man doesn't want to be at the birth, but the woman NEEDS someone there for her who she knows and trusts, then hire a Doula, who's job it is to 'mother the mother'.
I personally wouldn't take my own mother...but thats for reasons that don't need to be explained here

'I don't want to be there because I don't find birth amazing' is not a good enough excuse either.

If a DH has a serious phobia that is different, and a DW should be able to see when a DH has such serious issues that they override her wishes. A DW would not want a man with that many issues at the birth anyway.

But when a DH just says 'no' because he does not understand the birth process, doesn't want to see his wife in pain and doesn't want to see a baby come out of her then sorry he just needs to suck it up and go and support his wife.

I asked DH last night (who initially said he didn't want to be at the birth of our DTs - I said he had no choice) and he said of course men should be there. But he admitted it was pretty traumatising watching DT2 come out - the consultant delivering her said 'Come and watch the second one born'... DH said he really wished he hadn't looked - and that it did put him off sex for a while But giving birth put me off sex for a while too.

You are being so dogmatic about this, you really are starting to sound quite absurd.

Come back to take a look at the thread and it's not moved on a great deal, has it? There does seems to be an emerging consensus that it's fine for a partner not to be at birth if the couple agrees, but there are questions about why a man might not want to and some judgements about what sorts of reasons are acceptable.

Personally, I find the idea of trauma quite interesting. I hedged my bet with DS's birth and had my DH and my sister for support. It was a long and difficult birth and my sister was quite traumatised following it, as was I. DH seemed to have processed it all much better, perhaps being a man allowed him a certain distance from the events. When I got pregnant with DD, my sister still wanted to support me. Luckily, DD's birth was straightforward and a nice 'corrective' experience.

However, the point is that my sister is only aunt to my children and she put her own difficulties aside to support me. If she had not recovered from DS's birth enough to be able to consider being at DD's birth, then I think she would have sought some professional help with this unresolved issue.

I suppose that my question is for people who predict or have suffered some psychological harm around witnessing their partner's birth, are they seeking help for this (eg CBT , medication...etc)? Because that makes a difference to how I feel about their involvement or lack of.

Anniemac, we must have x-posted. I didn't read your account of your DH's experience of birth, so sorry if my post sounds a little crass in this context.

I have to say though that following the worst sort of experience, you DP still found a way to support you and to be present and this is admirable.

My dh, I think, assumed that as I didn't have a choice over whether to risk trauma by being present at the birth, neither did he- this was something we both laid ourselves open to by agreeing to try for a baby. The risk was there to either of us, and tbh I have met more women than men who have been traumatised by the birth.

Besides, a man could quite happily be present at the birth without staring at the business end: the midwife doesn't actually hold his head in a vice, does she? Staring lovingly into his wife's face might be just as supportive.

if my dh had had a big issue with the birth I would have taken that into account

but then if I had had a real issue I would have expected that to be taken into account too (maybe elective caesarian or whatever)

so yes, I do think one has to be flexible

I'm not a girl's girl though and dh is my best friend; for me to have some strange female there instead of him would have turned the whole thing into a nightmare- I'd rather have laboured alone than with a female I didn't know well who was supposed to replace the one person I did want

but people are all different

Yes, I felt very strongly that I needed a woman I knew to be present and I would have loved my other sister to have been there too as my other sister hadn't had children at that time. I think I would have wanted a doula if my sister hadn't been able to support me.

I was very lucky in that at DDs birth I had my DH, my sister, the midwife who delivered DS, my community midwife and a student all gathered round the pool in my dining room! This made me feel incredibly safe.

I think what this thread, like so many other birthing threads, brings out is that women are all different, and that the only way to ensure that birthing experiences are the best possible is to listen to each individual woman. It's not so much about whether you underrate women or overrate men: it's about recognising that it's not about one-size-fits-all.

It's one thing for men and women to admit that childbirth puts us off sex (certainly did us initially and more so me, what with the double whammy of breastfeeding) but another thing for this to be a reason to avoid support if one partner needs it. People can get help for this, if this feeling doesn't change over time.

Myess, I suppose that would follow. But at the same time, you have to recognise that there are two people involved in the birthing experience- so it isn't just about the man. If my dh had admitted that he was worrying more about his future sexual performance than about my loneliness in the birthing room (and my sexuality!), I would have been angry and a bit worried for the future. After all, I was going to need this man to be strong for all sorts of shitty occasions associated with fatherhood: he has had to watch his child unconscious and (as we thought at the time) dying in hospital, he has had to take his child to medical tests for a potentially fatal condition, he's going to have to do the latter again: he can't afford to be someone who worries about himself first, any more than I can as a mother.

This is not to trivialise your dh's very special circumstances. But the unusual circumstance there, if I have understood it correctly, is that he has been at a birth that went wrong and that you haven't? If it had been your child that died, would you have been as understanding of your dh leaving alone to give birth to the second, because of his trauma? I have never been in a situation where dh has suffered a trauma over the children which I haven't shared. And if it is a shared trauma, then I don't see why the man should opt out any more than the woman.

Hello, OP here. I see that the thread has moved on quite a bit! I am not saying that the father has to be at the birth itself, that is why I said
"Wouldn't any father want to be around when his child make their arrival, to want to be one of the first to see them, even if it's just to sit outside the ward (if they're squeamish or something).

When was that any type of special behaviour that warrants a gift?

And Anniemac where on earth did you get the impression that I wanted men at the business end during childbirth? My dh stayed well away, he was there for me throughout both births, he even looked taken aback when the midwife asked if he wanted to cut the cord, and refused. Of course if he wanted to be at the business end, that is fine too, I wouldn't go rushing out to Clintons to get him a balloon and card.

Maybe like someone else says our opinions are coloured by our own birth experiences and our own relationships, I feel that I'll be patronising my dh if I give him a thank you gift for being at our childrens' births. It's his children too, he's not just doing it for me.

megapixels, my husband wouls also have felt patronised if I´d given him a gift.

He wasn´t at the "business end" either-he was there more as company for me, tbh, not as a birthing partner.

He did manage to cut the cord, though.

Ah well, as to the OP, I think it's 'freaking weird' that people get as het up as they do over other people's present-giving choices. The fuss on here about presents for either parent after a child is born is, frankly, odd. Someone else referred to a 'baby bubble' - and isn't that just it?

my husband was at all three of mine. The first he found moving the bed up and down entertained him, the second he was in the background a bit because I had pre eclampsia and it was all a bit rusehd etc the third the midwfie didnt believe that I was in labour (aparently me telling her wasnt evidence enough) and when I started nagging at him to fetch her again his answer was " whats the point just have it here".

He was useless but I wouldnt have wanted anyone else there but him