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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that it's just freaking WEIRD to express gratitude to a father for being at his dc's birth?

230 replies

megapixels · 07/11/2009 14:42

A mum I know said she got her partner a gift and card to say thank you for being at their child's birth. Is it just me that thinks this is really odd? She said she is grateful that he wanted to be there, because many men don't bother . They are together by the way, he is not an ex.

Isn't it a sad world when men are expected to be useless dickheads and they get cards and gifts for being normal? Wouldn't any father want to be around when his child make their arrival, to want to be one of the first to see them, even if it's just to sit outside the ward (if they're squeamish or something). Whatever next, a father getting thank you tokens for attending school shows or parents consultations? For spending time doing family activities?

AIBU?

OP posts:
alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:27

Gunpowder - that's very easy to say - but what about the effects on the man? DH remembers DS2's birth more vividly than I do now........DS2 will be 6 at the end of this month.

Yes I was in a lot of pain with DS3 too (of course) - but the whole experience was totally different and it didn't affect him in the same way at all.

I'll be honest - despite my great birth with DS3 - I don't find the whole process of childbirth amazing, it doesn't "do" anything for me. It's a natural process that's going to happen if you want to have a baby.

And after the novelty of DS1's pg I didn't find pregnancy all that amazing either (although had really good pregnancies 2nd and 3rd time round as well so wasn't like I had shit pg's). I wanted another child, I was going to be pregnant. Means to an end and all that.

wahwah · 07/11/2009 22:27

Georgimama, my general comments about 'a man's job' do not translate to a belief about what you and your husband agree is his job. However, if you prefer to think I have some unsaid specific negative comments to make about him despite my last comment to you, then so be it. Not much I'm going to be able to do to change your mind. Have we 'crossed paths' before on another thread and something else
is going on, or have I just upset you (unintentionally) here?

nattiecake · 07/11/2009 22:27

and maybe when i have been through it i will change my mind. all i am saying for now is that i dont understand it.
if the father was there for two of the births gunpowder, surely at the earlier births you either wanted him there or he wanted to be there??
i guess you knew nothing then too.

neenz · 07/11/2009 22:30

Georgiemama, I see what you're saying and agree in part - women should think really hard about who they think will be most useful. Sometimes it won't be DH.

My sister wanted her DH to be there but realised he might not be the best practical support, so our mum was there too, and was a damn site more useful.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:33

I know there's no middle ground (well actually there is - there are other options for partners for childbirth - but they've been conviniently forgotten or disregarded since it became "essential" for the father to be there). There's no middle ground with whether the woman continues with the pregnancy or not - that's fair enough it's her body.

When it comes to childbirth - something which IS GOING TO HAPPEN IF YOU DECIDE TO HAVE A BABY - well then I believe the man's wishes should come into play as well.

Should one day DH decide he's up for no.4 then I shall make it very clear to him that if he doesn't want to be at the birth he doesn't have to. Yes it would be nice for him to be there, but having gone "new age" (well actually ancient practice just seen as a new fangled idea) and also had a doula present at DS3's birth I've realised that actually a good birth partner is important - no matter who they are. Someone who is there under duress isn't going to be a good birth partner - end of.

GunpowderTreasonAndDragons · 07/11/2009 22:33

"What about the affects on the man?" What about the affects on the mother? If she really wants the father there, should she just say "oh, never mind. I'll muddle on without you."? I'm not saying that it shouldn't be discussed and an agreement met, but at the end of the day, the mother's wishes are most important as she is the one actually doing it.

As an example... 3 months after I had DS1 (a v traumatic experience for me) a friend asked me to be her birth partner. I gave my reasons why I didn't feel I could do it and she was fine with that. However, had she said "please, I really really want you to be there", I would have done it. And I wasn't even the father

Georgimama · 07/11/2009 22:34

No, we haven't crossed paths to my knowledge. But if you attempt to generalise about what "men" in general should or shouldn't do, be prepared for people to be offended.

Neenz, not that this was an issue for us, but I would actually consider the possibility that our sex life might be damaged in the long term to be quite important and not something to go about. Presumably you wouldn't go if PND led a woman's sex drive to be diminished? Do you just not believe in sex equality?

TheFallenMadonna · 07/11/2009 22:34

Ha! Georgimama, your post reminds me of the absolute fear I saw in my brother when he was staying with me ahen I was 37 weeks pregnant and DH was working abroad. My mum told him in no uncertain terms that were I to go into labour, he would have to step up until she managed to get there. Suffice it to say, he was not on my list when it came to number two...

GunpowderTreasonAndDragons · 07/11/2009 22:36

But "other options for birth partners" isn't middle ground for a mother who really wants the father to be there is it?

You are happy for your DH not to be there if he chooses not to. That's fine, of course it is, but if someone really wants the father to be there, needs them to be there, then that is where they should be, no question.

Georgimama · 07/11/2009 22:37

And I would say to that, that precisely what you don't need is someone who doesn't really want to be there.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:38

yes well what about the effects on the father. You know they have feelings and emotions as well, they have memories and suffer from depression and stuff as well you know.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:40

yes I am happy for that now - as I've opened my eyes and realised that a birth partner doesn't HAVE to be the father.

Unfortunately it's drummed in by everyone these days that the father HAS to be there for the birth - so of course a pregnant woman is going to think that's the only option she has and the only person she could possibly have there.

StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 07/11/2009 22:40

Maybe he was very supportive and she felt he made a big difference to her and wanted to let him know.

As a m/w I see plenty of men who are there in body but totally useless at being any form of help.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:41

I'm sorry to say that I don't think that the feelings of a pregnant woman come over anyone else;s feelings without question or doubt.

PerArduaAdNauseum · 07/11/2009 22:42

ABD - perhaps the chap who was so traumatised by seeing a suction tube in action should have done a bit more preparation/reading pre-birth? Or was that women's work?

GunpowderTreasonAndDragons · 07/11/2009 22:45

No, I wanted the father of my children there. I didn't want another person.

FFS I know men have feelings! Where did I say they don't?

If it comes down to the choice between a mother who really wants and needs the father to be there and a father who doesn't want to then the mother's wishes come top. someone has to win and someone has to lose when it comes down to it. If the father is the birth partner she wants and needs, he should be there.

To twist your comment round: Women have feelings and emotions as well, they have memories and suffer from depression and stuff as well you know.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:45

"ABD - perhaps the chap who was so traumatised by seeing a suction tube in action should have done a bit more preparation/reading pre-birth? Or was that women's work?"

PMSL - you're having a laugh aren't you? Most women read every thing they can before going into labour, it doesn't stop their experiences (which may be almost identical to those they've read about) affecting them in some wa or other. All the reading in the world imo does nothing to really prepare you for actually experiencing it.

neenz · 07/11/2009 22:46

'Neenz, not that this was an issue for us, but I would actually consider the possibility that our sex life might be damaged in the long term to be quite important and not something to go about. Presumably you wouldn't go if PND led a woman's sex drive to be diminished? Do you just not believe in sex equality?'

What?

The difference is PND is REAL, a man thinking he 'might' be put off sex because he saw a baby come out of he DW is not real.

The two things are not comparable.

Georgimama, did you want your DH there at the birth and he refused? Or were you not bothered anyway? Because they are two different things.

My DH made all the usual noises eg 'ooh I don't want to be there' but it was not an option. I needed him there, and he was fab.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:48

Would you want someone "supporting" you in labour who really didn't want to be there?? Especially if they have good reasons not to want to be there.

I don't believe a woman NEEDS their DH to be there - and if they do what has changed in the last 40yrs?? Because not all women NEEDED them there before then.

MiniMarmite · 07/11/2009 22:48

My DH and my Mum were both present at DS's birth and I gave them both a gift to thank them for supporting me. I expected a midwife to be present but we gave her a gift too.

Not sure why any of that might be considered weird TBH.

I understand what you mean about it now being normal for men to be at the birth of their children (this has not always been the case as others have pointed out) and that a man should not receive a gift purely for being there but are you sure that the gift was given just for being present?

TheFallenMadonna · 07/11/2009 22:48

I do know it does't have to be the father. My mum was my sister's birth partner.
Not for me though.

I think it's an awfully difficult one to see someone else's POV, because your own relationship is so fundamental to the choices you and you partner would make. I said below that if DH were not the kind of man he is, I wouldn't want him as my birth partner. But he is, and he probably wouldn't be my partner if he weren't IYSWIM. A circular argument...

Georgimama · 07/11/2009 22:48

PND is real. And some men are genuinely traumatised by what they see in the labour ward and find it difficult to relate sexually to their partners afterwards. And if you don't equate the two as equally important, you are a sexist.

GunpowderTreasonAndDragons · 07/11/2009 22:49

The mother is the one who is going to go through an intense physical experience. She is then going to go through hormonal hell, be the primary carer for the new baby (most likely), be responsible for feeding it (most likely) and, most likely, be deprived of sleep the most. as well as most likely being battered and bruised.

that is why I think her wishes trump those of the father.

meltedchocolate · 07/11/2009 22:49

You are all having a serious debate but i am just gonna shove my way in and say. He made baby with me so he was there. I needed support more than he had an excuse not to be there.

For us anyway that was the end of that!
(and he wanted to be - why anyone wouldnt is beyond me but we are all different)

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:51

of course I think many of you here are talking about a father thinking something could affect him when it's his first child. Once they're onto no2,3,4,5 (or even number 9 ) they probably do actually have actual reasons for not wanting to be there.

PND affects men as well.

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