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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that it's just freaking WEIRD to express gratitude to a father for being at his dc's birth?

230 replies

megapixels · 07/11/2009 14:42

A mum I know said she got her partner a gift and card to say thank you for being at their child's birth. Is it just me that thinks this is really odd? She said she is grateful that he wanted to be there, because many men don't bother . They are together by the way, he is not an ex.

Isn't it a sad world when men are expected to be useless dickheads and they get cards and gifts for being normal? Wouldn't any father want to be around when his child make their arrival, to want to be one of the first to see them, even if it's just to sit outside the ward (if they're squeamish or something). Whatever next, a father getting thank you tokens for attending school shows or parents consultations? For spending time doing family activities?

AIBU?

OP posts:
GunpowderTreasonAndDragons · 07/11/2009 22:51

40 years ago they weren't allowed to be there. That's not the same as women not wanting/needing them there, it simply wasn't an option.

"I don't believe a woman NEEDS their DH to be there"

Fine. From my experience I do.

ABetaDad · 07/11/2009 22:52

GunpowderTreasonAndDragon - " If the mother wants him there, he should be there."

Sorry but I just think that is just really REALLY wrong. It seems to me that some posters take the view on MN that being pregnant puts a woman on some sort of astral plane that means no one is allowed to say or do anything she disagrees with. Only she has rights, emotions, hormones, fears. DH/DP has none of those and if he has he is only allowed to express them if she deems it acceptable.

No man should be forced to go to see his baby born. End of.

neenz · 07/11/2009 22:52

That's bollocks Georgimama, because not wanting sex due to PND and not wanting to be at a birth IN CASE you are put off sex are two very different things.

If a man attended a birth and was so traumatised that he didn't want sex, that is not something I would go at.

But a man using it as an excuse to not be at the birth is not on. If a woman said I am not having a baby in case I get PND I would go to.

So not a sexist, thanks.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:52

ok fair enough to all of those things Gunpowder - so when DO his wishes come into play?

starkadder · 07/11/2009 22:54

haven't read whole thread but am rather MN-happy today and announcing my opinions all over the place so here we go...

Seems to me that giving the father a gift for being at the birth is kind of on a par with giving the mother a diamond of whatever for having the baby. Nothing wrong with it but, IMHO, a bit weird since, after all, you're both GETTING A BABY...which kind of trumps most other presents...

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 22:54

well yes I "thought" I did as well - until I had a doula.

Many woman who had children more than 40yrs ago I'm sure will testify that they didn't need their DH to be there, and had great births, with suppportive birth partners.

Just because times changed to ALLOW men to be part of it doesn't mean that its the ONLY way - but it's all that's talked about these days so people grow up to think it's the only option.

ABD - totally agree with you.

Georgimama · 07/11/2009 22:54

OK. So in your view his fear that it would put him off sex is bollocks in advance of the event, but then when he turns out to be right (because frankly it's likely to be a self fulfilling prophecy) it isn't bollocks.

You're talking bollocks.

GunpowderTreasonAndDragons · 07/11/2009 22:56

Can't be arsed any more. I've said what I feel and explained why I feel it but at the end of the day nothing is going to change my mind or yours. I've done it both ways and 2 were fine and one still makes me cry [shrug]

muminthemiddle · 07/11/2009 22:56

Op YANBU I would find it vomit inducing.

Whatever next a gift for holding the baby? changing it's nappy? feeding it? Good god if you don't want to witness such a process then take measures to prevent pregnancy in the first place!!!

neenz · 07/11/2009 22:57

We are treating labour and birth as some sort of awful traumatic experience, like it's no surprise men don't want to be there, but birth is not like that the majority of the time, it is not traumatic, it does not lead men to get PND, it is just an amazing experience.

First-time dads might say they don't want to be there because they are frightened of the unknown. Well being frightened of the unknown is not a great excuse.

If they have been to 2/3/4 births and don't want to be there then I would say fair enough. (But I would be disappointed if my DH said that, and I know he wouldn't)

TheFallenMadonna · 07/11/2009 23:00

Choices have consequences though. If two people have opposing wishes and one overrides the other, there will be consequences. In that situation, I suppose you have to predict what the relative benefit and harm will be for each partner individually and the relationship between them.

starkadder · 07/11/2009 23:01

Also, I have to say . gunpowder - I do agree with you.

I am not into the deification of pregnant women or mothers, BUT - assuming the mother and father are still a couple, then I think that if the mother really wants the father to be present at the birth, then he should be. You're supposed to be together, and to help and support each other, and what kind of a decent husband or boyfriend wouldn't do that for the woman he loved?

After all, she doesn't have any option but to be there...the least he can do is show up. If, on the other hand, the couple aren't together, of the mother feels fine about having no birth partner or having someone other than the father, then fine, obviously.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 23:02

"but birth is not like that the majority of the time, it is not traumatic, it does not lead men to get PND, it is just an amazing experience."

  • yes for a lot of women (and men) it is. But for many it isn't. I don't find birth amazing (even DS3's that I actually enjoyed) I can't think of as "amazing" it was a process that I knew would happen when I became pregnant.

I see just as many none amazing birth stories on MN as I see "amazing" ones.

starkadder · 07/11/2009 23:04

and @betadad - it isn't necessarily about going to see the baby being born, it's about being there to support the woman you love, who's bringing your child into the world. You're a reasonable guy, surely you agree that good men would do this if their partners really wanted them to?

neenz · 07/11/2009 23:09

But alwayslooking, many many more births are normal than are not.

When labour and birth are always portrayed on TV as traumatic, problematic etc then it's no wonder men don't want to be there. Most women don't want to be there either. But when they do it, they realise it is not so bad after all.

My DH said he didn't want to be there, I said I needed him there, he was there, and he still wants to have sex with me. Left to his own devices he wouldn't have been there. Ask him now, he woulnd't havwe missed it for the world. They know not what they want

sandcastles · 07/11/2009 23:13

Dh wasn't at either of our dd's births.

Dd1 was a crash section under GA, therefore not allowed & dd2 was an elective section.

He is hugely hospital/dr phobic & to be honest, I could have pinpointed the exact time he would have passed out! Therefore leaving me alone, which would have been horrible.

He took me to the hospital & sat waiting in recovery & looked after me & dd brilliantly. The theatre would have been too much.

Doesn't make him a wimp or any of the other things banded about on this thread.

ABetaDad · 07/11/2009 23:13

neenz - men do get PND. For some men it is far from amazing as I described for my former male colleague.

He went and did something really stupid a few months after the birth and nearly wrecked his marriage and his life and I do beleive it was because of his experience. He was a wreck before and after.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 23:17

jsut because they're "normal" doesn't mean they don't have last effects on someone.

I had the most boring "Emergency" CS with DS1. My waters had broken, no contractions, they decided he was in distress (looking back 9yrs bollox was he - I was young and naieve, the ward was busy, it was hospital that at the time had stupidly high CS rates) and 4hrs (yes 4hrs after they decided he was in distress ) (or was it risk of distress - I forget now) I had a CS.

I ended up with PND and terrified of ever having a CS again (CS itself was fine, no complications, quick recovery - just something affected me about it).

A birth doesn't have to be traumatic to have a negative impact on someone.

And who said it was just about sex afterwards???

jasper · 07/11/2009 23:18

why would you insist your partner was there if he did not want to be?
I really don't get that at all

PerArduaAdNauseum · 07/11/2009 23:18

Neither DH or I were at the birth of DS, as it was a slash and grab under GA. Before that, I'd had 20 hours of spine to spine labour, 14 of which were at the hospital, with DH snoozing in the bed as I obviously couldn't sleep.

Shortly afterwards, he suggested to me that he thought he might have had it worse as he had been shut out of the delivery room not knowing what was going on.

I put him straight.

And there will be no DC2.

neenz · 07/11/2009 23:21

ABD, that's really sad, but it is not a typical experience is it?

It is like saying I will never drive on the motorway again because I know someone who was killed in a crash on the motorway. It is not a sensible reaction.

Most men attend births of children and do not have long-term problems because of it. So when a woman really wants her DH to be there and he really doesn't have a good excuse to not be there, then he really should be there.

If the DW is not bothered, then everyone's happy. I'm not saying the DH has to be there, but he should if it is really important to the DW.

neenz · 07/11/2009 23:28

Alwayslooking, it's not about sex afterwards, I was just using that as an example of a reason a man might give to not be there, which IMO does not override a DW's desire that he is there.

But every couple has to sort it for themselves.

For me, I would not have taken no for an answer because my DH did not have a good reason except that he found it all a bit 'yuck'. Well tough shit.

Some DWs might not mind, and some DHs might have a better excuse. If they can come to an amicable agreement then great.

alwayslookingforanswers · 07/11/2009 23:31

"If the DW is not bothered, then everyone's happy. I'm not saying the DH has to be there, but he should if it is really important to the DW."

but what if the DH is bothered about being there?? Why does it automatically have to be the DW's opinion that matters.

PerArduaAdNauseum · 07/11/2009 23:36

Cos she doesn't get any choice in the matter and they both agreed to have the child?

sandcastles · 07/11/2009 23:37

"someone has to win and someone has to lose when it comes down to it"
Gunpowder, why does childbirth have to be about winning & losing? It is NOT a competition!

There is NO WAY I would have forced dh to be present. He was there before dd1 became a section, but I had another birth partner just in case he didn't feel able to carry on. I don't feel like I lost anything at all, by him not being there.

He is not selfish, I did not 'lose', he did not 'win'. As a couple we talked about it, taking his phobia into consideration. He said he would try & I gave him an out. For dd2, we talked about VBAC v Section & we came to the same conclusion. Once I opted for a section, he told me that he felt unable to come into theatre.

IMO, any loving wife would NOT force a husband to be there if he didn't want to. Just as any loving husband wouldn't force his wife to do anything she didn't want to!