to think that we are being FAR TOO SOFT on our kids nowadays by trying to help them avoid any little mishap?

[flashharriet]

DS (Y6) walks to school with some friends. This morning, he decides to cook himself some breakfast and was then mucking about with his sisters. He then leapt in the shower and was in serious danger of being too late to meet his friends. So he said "Mum, you'll have to drive me to meet them" which I refused to do, suggesting instead that he call his friends to let them know. Moaning and groaning, he sprinted out the door and managed to meet them.

Relaying this later to one of the Mums at school, I could see her thinking "Aw, you could have taken him, poor boy". This is an attitude that seems quite prevalent now - the mums are truly lovely people and their kids' childhood must be lovely because nothing is ever allowed to go wrong in it! But I do wonder whether this is in fact, not doing the kids any favours in the long run? I know that I learnt some really important lessons about work and friendships by making mistakes and having to reap the consequences.

AIBU or am I out of step with everyone else?

Depends whether it's an income-assessed student loan or not, I suppose. Income-assessed, then the parents are involved.

as a university teacher, I don't see too many parents hanging around the place

but I have to say it is a bit of a problem when parents are so involved that you feel a student can't talk straight to you as an adult; it is horrendously difficult to try to communicate with a student if you feel they are constantly looking over their shoulder for a parent to speak for them or make decisions for them

taking an interest is all very well- but would you expect to follow him into his workplace?

the whole university experience depends on it being Adult Learning; if the student does not think like an adult, they are not going to be able to cope; and we have to be able to speak to them like adults

so please, limit your involvement to the bits you really have to deal with: if you take an interest in their learning, then why not simply ask them about it later instead?

Surely you can only take an interest in their learning by asking about it later. You can't follow them around the campus on a day to day basis, or to lectures, or night out with new friends surely? Or are you saying that some parents do that? Surely not.

Well no, we don't allow that Though actually, I have had it happen once, at my old university.

But following them into the talks at open day does encourage a certain type of student to switch off their own brains because mummy and daddy are there to deal with things.

I have certainly had students who only seem to wake up and notice that mummy's gone home halfway through the first semester- and then they are often in trouble.

It is a very serious problem, which I think my colleagues all agree on, that we are seeing more and more students who have not been conditioned to expect that they will be taking any decisions- so they don't think they need to take in any information either. If they can't take mum into a private tutorial, they will at least expect to take a friend, because they have no experience of being their own agent.

Personally, I think it is too late to have your first experience of representing yourself when you have already started university- by that time you need to know how to do it, otherwise you will be hopelessly behind by the time you figure out how it's done.

I think it's difficult to say why that might be cory. Whether it's parents doing too much or the way students come through the school system with too much done for them and expect it to be the same at university.

Add to that the fact that university life is probably different to what they have known so far and that it's possibly the first time that some have lived away from home then maybe it's not too bad that it only takes half a semester for them to 'wake up'

Or am I being too soft

I've had students who still haven't seemed to have quite woken up by the time they've finished their first degree.

Not sure it's the schools: the remit of the schools would be limited anyway (teach them to organise the work). But when you notice they don't seem to have much experience of decision-making on a personal level or of speaking to adults in an adult way, then you do wonder how much they've ever been away and had to do things on their own. Something like living away from home is an experience that could easily be organised for them before they get to university. In my day, when Interrail tickets were still cheap, school leavers used to travel all over Europe the summer before they went to uni. Or else they would take jobs in other parts of the country or go abroad as au-pairs. Of course not everybody can afford/manage this sort of thing, but I think some experience of standing on your own feet before uni is a very valuable gift. Something that isn't organised by the parents.

But of course the majority of students are fine.

Freshers' Week seems to me a very dangerous place to start independence.

For those who haven't quite 'got it' by the end of their degree do you really think that a summer holiday away would do the trick? If 3-4 years don't?

Some people just take longer than others for the penny to drop that they are in charge of their own lives. I do think that going away to university helps a lot with this.
I do think that some people never seem to wake up and they expect it to be someone else's responsibility to sort their lives out.
I also think it's not unreasonable to be able to ask for help if you are in a situation that's unfamiliar to you.

However, I do understand what you are saying about some students switching off and leaving it to their parents if they are there. So agree with you when you said
"limit your involvement to the bits you really have to deal with".
I think that probably applies to every stage of a child's life in the main.

no, I quite agree; some people are just going to be clueless whatever you do, and it's unfair to blame it on the parents or anyone else

but I do think the years between 16 and 18 should be a gradual initiation into adulthood, being more and more expected to make decisions and taking the consequences

and by the way, I am not complaining about students who ask for help- that seems to me a mature and independent way of dealing with a problem

I'm thinking more about the ones that sit with a vacant expression and an unconnected mind because it simply hasn't occurred to them that it will be their responsibility to take this information in and deal with it

It's not good at all. Reminds me of the climbing trees thing, I met loads of parents in my MH/AP job who thought I was crazy for letting my charges climb trees and thought I was being neglectful for taking my charge and her friend puddle jumping. Needless to say, kids should be allowed to be kids!

Cory, can I borrow you for a minute over on this thread?

"Hence my DCs will learn how to work a washing machine and get themselves from A to B on time and research their own projects for school but I want them to know without doubt that if I will always do it for them, with love, as and when it is fitting. "

Completely agree with this Ouchhh!

I asked my Mum to come to the Uni open days with me because I wanted to have a second opinion that I could rely on. It also made it easier to discuss pros and cons later on and from her POV I think Mum enjoyed it because it meant that she could see where I would be going and what I'd be doing. (not that I ended up at uni for long! And that had nothing to do with my parents more my boyfriend at the time who dictated my life!)
Both me and Mum went to my little sisters open day in Preston and spent more time joking about, playing with the circus club (they had poi ) and chatting to the societies as my sister wanted to check out some of the mini-lectures alone. She went to a few others alone or wqith friends but I think she felt better about being able to discuss the Preston uni with us as we'd seen it and knew what she was thinking. She's now at her first year doing some sort of media and photography course

Whereas, my parents didn't meet my host family when I was being a mother's help once, I left on Sunday and it was the only time they had ever even seen where I was living in the year I was there. They were fine with me being there but I think Mum found it difficult to advise me on situations or imagine what I was talking about when she had no idea where I was or who I was with!

It depends on the people, some parents are taking an interest, and some students think that parents are there to choose for them, in which case they are not ready to be treated like adults imo. I love that my Mum took an interest and came with me as it made it easier for me to copme to terms with everything. However I also love how when I worked for PGL she helped me with my bags to the train station and sent me on my way!