to think that people claiming that BNP voters aren't racists are being disingenuous?

[MrJustAbout]

I don't get the argument "that these people aren't racist, but they vote just BNP".

For me, If you vote BNP, you are a racist. I know this is guilt by association but I think it's fair. What's more, making excuses for those who choose to support these hatemongers makes it more acceptable for them to do so.

I know I wouldn't vote for a party when I didn't know their policies and if I did, I'd feel pretty ashamed that I voted without bothering to find out. To be honest, anyone who votes for the BNP and claims that didn't realise they'd just cosied up to facists needs to give up voting for good.

Hello MrJusta

I think they are either racist or really fucking thick.

Absolutely. Either liars or fuckwits.

The BNP supporters on The Other Thread demonstrated very clearly that they are incapable of backing up their hateful ideals with any fact or reasonable argument. As did NG on QT.

I think that they think they are using their vote to make a point. Which is, IMVHO, a totally deluded POV.

YANBU. Either racist or completely ignorant, mistaking the BNP for some kind of patriotic party that will protect their jobs/housing/women from illegal immigrants.

YANBU
racist or stupid or both.

YANBU

I think you have to be quite stupid to be racist, the two go together.

Actually I am going to disagree with you there. I have never voted BNP myself you understand but I do kind of understand why some non racist people vote for them. It is a desperate stand against the problems this country suffers due to mass immigration. I think we all know that the BNP will never get into power in this country but people are suffering out there due to these immigration problems and governments aren't listening. However I do think voting BNP is the wrong way to go about it as people are listening to some of the BNPs more moderate and sometimes sensible sounding views and not looking at the bigger picture and seeing them for what they are.

I think all this name calling is justified and understandable but we do need to look at why it is happening and deal with it.

" I think we all know that the BNP will never get into power in this country "
but enough racists + enough "protest voters" + enough apathetic anti-BNP non voters and they might

" I think we all know that the BNP will never get into power in this country "
but enough racists + enough "protest voters" + enough apathetic anti-BNP non voters and they might

Not enough of those people in this country.

And it is not just about jobs it is about resources.

Anyway I am not saying I agree with the BNP I am just saying there are bigger issues out there and calling racist and leaving it at that it also ignorant.

I liked the muslim lady on the panel last night. She spoke a lot of sense.

What are the 'problems this country is suffering because of mass immigration', nikki1978? I'm interested to hear...

nikki, i think there are a lot of non-voters, who would not have voted BNP iyswim.

I do think we need some cohesion policies, it is quite terrible that there is such a drain on our maternity resources from people that have barely lived in this country let alone contributed. However without immigration our health service would collapse!

I think we need a scoring policy to enter and stay in the UK and we need to ensure people coming here know how to integrate, with better leadership from community leaders.

Look I am not going to get into some big arguement about this as I am not a BNP supporter and therefore not against you but I think the problems with mass immigration are clear - over burden on the NHS, housing, benefits system, education system etc etc. I also accept immigration brings it benefits but there needs to be a line somewhere. We are a fairly small country after all. I am not just talking about refugees here I am talking about europeans coming here to make extra money etc etc.

Have to take the kids to school now so won't be on here for a while. Just want to say I hope you can accept other peoples views and not just call racist. I do agree immigration is important but it is not good sense to say there should not be a limit.

Anyway to be honest I don't see anyone saying fair enough to me here as you are all feel how you feel about it so it is a pointless arguement.

Agreed posieparksherbroom

SHRIIIEEEK I agree and that is what I would have done in their situation (i.e spoiled my ballot paper in protest) but unfortunately it does not get their point across.

yes

It isn't a pointless argument. I am simply asking you to give me the evidence you are using to make your judgement the 'the problems with mass immigration are clear - over burden on the NHS, housing, benefits system, education system etc etc'

Who says there is an 'over-burden' on these services from mass immigration? Based on what knowledge or research? I'd like to see the actual figures, or reports from managers of these services if they are available.

posieparksherbroom.......what the heck do you hope to achieve by doing that? THAT is disgusting, that any website publishes detail of members and who they are, I'm all for freedom of speech and that everyone should be allowed the freedom to find out information, but by publishing that likn you have allowed people to look and see if their neighbour or friend votes BNP, and thus they could instantly change their opinion of that person.
Would you do it for labour/tory voters?

I'm not that convinced about the protest vote argument. There are plenty of other 'little Englander'/anti-immigration parties out there - not least vast swathes of the Tory party and UKIP. Why can't they vote for them - at least their MEPs don't have criminal convictions resulting from their racist views (that I know of!).

As a protest, voting for the BNP goes further than just a democratic protest - it's more molotov cocktail through the window of a mosque than a peaceful march to make a point.

In terms of the specific points: I've lived in the sorts of northern areas where the BNP takes hold. As a white (non-English) guy, I found I had a lot more in common with the Pakistani members of the communnity than with those who were resentful of their presence. Working men's clubs are fantastic places for seeing those that the BNP is taking support from, but it's no stretch at all to call a lot of the "disadvantaged" whites racist. Generally, they got screwed over by Thatcherism and were ignored afterwards. The problem, though is that a lot of them aren't going to be happy with anything other than the restoration of the 70s. They want to go back to the cosiness of their existence then and racism is part of that picture. I can be as bleedy-heart-liberal as I want about all of this but I don't think making excuses for racism helps.

Re the maternity point above: I don't suppose you're planning on drawing a pension then? If you take a look the demographics, it's exactly these kids who we're relying on to fund pensions in the future.

chickydee, while i'm uneasy about that list in general, I don't really care how other people vote unless they vote BNP! IMO that makes them racist.

All the main political parties are racist in that they all seek to limit immigration. These policies have public support, and the alternative of saying that anyone that wants to come to Britain to be allowed to do so would be thought mad by most.

But the current position is racist, and lets see it for what is. If I want to move to Milton Keynes today, I can, without any permission needed. Someone from, say, Egypt, can't.

So, immigration policy is in itself racist, and no less so because it has broad support.

Is the reality then that Labour, Conservatives and Liberals are (a bit) racist, and BNP are simply more racist?