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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think that people claiming that BNP voters aren't racists are being disingenuous?

838 replies

MrJustAbout · 23/10/2009 00:04

I don't get the argument "that these people aren't racist, but they vote just BNP".

For me, If you vote BNP, you are a racist. I know this is guilt by association but I think it's fair. What's more, making excuses for those who choose to support these hatemongers makes it more acceptable for them to do so.

I know I wouldn't vote for a party when I didn't know their policies and if I did, I'd feel pretty ashamed that I voted without bothering to find out. To be honest, anyone who votes for the BNP and claims that didn't realise they'd just cosied up to facists needs to give up voting for good.

OP posts:
VulpusinaWilfsuit · 30/10/2009 10:00

That's bollocks though isn't it? If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen...

...If you don't want to be accused of racism, don't defend/support/be an apologist for a racist party.

Simples.

daftpunk · 30/10/2009 10:01

of course not everyone who votes BNP are racist....that's like saying everyone who votes tory are rich, and everyone who votes labour are on benefits....it's a ridiculous argument...and a sweeping generalization....

there are racists in all parties..

electra · 30/10/2009 10:03

scarletliliybug -some people are trying to argue that it's possible for someone for vote for the BNP and not be racist. I don't think that is possible - you are right, they are voting in spite of those policies, so they must be ok with them.

'What might change their minds is talking openly and rationally about the issues that the BNP appears to address.'

There has been plenty of discussion on this thread about it and people have posted links to try to dispel some of the myths the BNP play up - such as dp's suggestion that immigrants are given priority for social housing. These things were ignored.

chickydee's post shows exactly why it seems so difficult to get a BNP supporter to qualify their position. They simply won't.

VulpusinaWilfsuit · 30/10/2009 10:10

I'm not sure why you are objecting to the label DP since many of the things you have said on this thread are, in fact, racist. And as BIWI pointed out, very reasonably, you can't pick and choose with something like this. And why sweeping generalisations and ridiculous arguments are bothering you all of a sudden I have no idea: because you are feeling the heat a bit maybe?

It is like saying 'Yep so those Nazis were a bit horrid to the Jews, but hey they were great at making the trains run on time so we can forget about all that'.

Nonsense.

daftpunk · 30/10/2009 10:14

they are not bothering me all of a sudden....think i said right at the start not everyone who votes BNP are racist.....that is true....not sure why you are having difficulty with that...

VulpusinaWilfsuit · 30/10/2009 10:20

No DP, you are mistaken. Not everyone who votes BNP thinks they are racist, but they are. You'd be very hard-pressed to get anyone to own up to being racist, but that doesn't mean that they are not.

You are a racist, both by dint of some of the things you have said on here, AND by your support of the BNP.

daftpunk · 30/10/2009 10:22

rubbish...and offensive.

are all UKIP sopporters racist..?

daftpunk · 30/10/2009 10:31

i'm giving up on this ....way too many lefties to have a balanced argument..

BIWI.....

i was going to the xmas meet-up....thought it would be a good idea to meet some more people from here and chat in RL....so much easier....

however,....not sure i could look you in the eye and tell you i've changed my mind...

but like i siad last night......i will always be glad we met...

will email mamazon now to tell her i wont be going....last thing i want is to make anyone feel uncomfortable...

scottishmummy · 30/10/2009 10:40

dp ease up on the poor widdle me.dem lefties are bullying me.

you gave
you got

this topic is contentious.
live to post another day

scarletlilybug · 30/10/2009 12:40

"scarletliliybug -some people are trying to argue that it's possible for someone for vote for the BNP and not be racist. I don't think that is possible - you are right, they are voting in spite of those policies, so they must be ok with them."

I don't think all BNP supporters are necessarily "ok" with racism - maybe they just don't see racism as being the biggest issue concerning them personally.

Anyway, this whole "debate" is getting nowhere. OP and others think BNP voters are, by definition, racist. I disagree and think that view is simplistic and unhelpful (in terms of dealing with the BNP) and a few others have supported this view. And there's been some name calling and insults. Nice.

BecauseImWorthIt · 30/10/2009 12:45

DP -

moffat · 30/10/2009 12:56

There is no doubt that the BNP is a racist party. If you form, join or vote for a political party purely to defend the rights of one race that is racism.

electra · 30/10/2009 13:05

Well it's a pretty big issue to ignore when voting scarlet. Did you see the link I posted? It rather suggests that the BNP is not about nationalism (bad enough) but quite simply all about them not liking those who aren't white.

How should we deal with the rise of the BNP when people won't accept or even acknowledge evidence that suggests their policies are borne out of perpetuated misinformation, propaganda and lies?

scarletlilybug · 30/10/2009 13:17

Sorry, I look at most links, but not Youtube.

Look, I'm not planning on voting BNP and I'm not justifying the party's policies. But not everyone is particularly worried about racism. And lots of people are worried about issues that the BNP does address, like immigration and multiculturalism.

As for "their policies are borne out of perpetuated misinformation, propaganda and lies".... that sound just like New Labour to me.

I have seen a lot of misinformation put about by both "sides" in this debate.

bodycolder · 30/10/2009 13:21

How on earth can you vote bnp and not be racist???? What are their non racist policies that so attract you? Although regardless of whether or not dp or chickydee vote for them their posts are independently racist bnp or not!Can't you see dp that by not being able to go to the meet up as someone may feel uncomfortable with you is the same as many immigrants and black/asian people feel all the time?You must recognise that it doesn't feel good to be excluded?think about it

electra · 30/10/2009 13:29

TNo government is without corruption. New Labour are not a fascist regime though. I don't think I'd ever fear for my life and whole experience of it under a NL government.

The link gives an interesting perspective from someone who did an experiment to see what kind of response different people had from party members when they expressed interest in joining the BNP.

electra · 30/10/2009 13:31

BTW - why are people worried about multiculturalism?

daftpunk · 30/10/2009 13:55

bc;

i really wanted to go, i'd love to meet some of the people i chat to on here...even people who have deleted me..!...i'd just laugh about it and buy them a drink....

but i've been out with biwi a few times....we couldn't ignore each other....i know she is very passionate about this....i can shrug things off, have a bottle of vodka and crazy dance.....forget about politics for a few hours...you know...just have a good time.

but not everyone is like me.....and i respect biwi as a friend and am thinking about her feelings.

scottishmummy · 30/10/2009 14:03

why the angst DP,words on a screen,opinions exchanged.in RL people i imagine most mn to be polite reasonable folk, who wouldn't dredge up an online spat in rl if they met you

go out if you want to

BecauseImWorthIt · 30/10/2009 15:45

Hmm. Not sure I like being cast as a villain in the piece DP! If you don't want to go, that's your right. Equally if you do want to go, please do! I'm not going to ignore you or be rude to you in any way, nor will you hurt my feelings.

daftpunk · 30/10/2009 16:16

noooooooooooooooooooooooo....

you have read this all wrong....

i am not casting you as the villain....what do you think i meant..? that you would burst out crying if i came anywhere near you..?....and because of that i wont go..?

biwi...you probably wouldn't even notice i'm there...you know alot more people than i do...

all i meant was...we could get talking about this..( i wont mention it)....you could ask me what i've decided...i will tell you the truth.....

daftpunk · 30/10/2009 16:18

hi SM...

not sure where all the angst is coming from.......

half term i guess..?

monkeysmama · 30/10/2009 16:23

Stop casting yourself as the victim. The victims are the women like the one whose kids have been racially abused. You made highly political comments about an openly racist party thats leader has denied the Holocaust and past leader regularly dressed in a nazi SS uniform. You were then unable or unwilling to back your comments up. You've played the victim when it suits you and swung to being aggressive when you thought someone with similar views was posting too. I have no pity for you.

Hopefully the MN Christmas do will be full of different women with lots of different views and interests. Hopefully none of them will think anyone non-white doesn't have the right to be there.

bodycolder · 30/10/2009 16:27

The words pass and buck spring to mind.This is now becoming as farcical as NG himself.Why do so many fall for the poor me back pedalling I just don't get it.

GColdtimer · 30/10/2009 16:55

"white people have had enough"

I simply cannot see why you cannot see that this is racist.

If this isn't about colour, you won't mind your parents being "repatriated" DP if they still live here.

And cannot believe anyone wold be so naive as to believe the BNP when they say "voluntary" repatriation. Do you mean the kind of voluntary repatriation that is achieved through bulling, intimindation, violence and threatening behaviour?

The thing is, there has been so many excellent contributions on this thread without any indication that the BNP supporters are listening. I take my hats off to all of you trying to carry out a reasoned debate but I do fear you are talking to a fair few brick walls.

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