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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to consider reporting friend to SS?

456 replies

sillysalley · 14/10/2009 22:42

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

OP posts:
Janos · 16/10/2009 18:05

There's a big difference between drawing attention to something that has caused concern and accusing someone of child abuse though.

Tying up a door handle so that you have you have difficulty getting in or the child has difficulty getting out is cause for concern. It could have awful consequences. Pointing that out is not equal to saying someone is a child abuser.

MonkeyPoo · 16/10/2009 18:06

gorionine being concerned about a child does not mean that you assume a parent is a child abuser - it just means that you're concerned something isn't quite right.
I agree that the OP has been unfairly torn to shreds on this matter.
We all have instincts and know when things don't seem quite right - often instincts are proved to be founded.
As I said earlier, if one person has concerns, often others have too (this was, albeit wrongly, confirmed by the HV in this case).
The rights of the child (not the parent, although some of you will certainly disagree) are paramount (UN convention on the Rights of the Child)

MonkeyPoo · 16/10/2009 18:08

Also, child protection, by it's very nature, is not an exact science - there are many grey areas that, nontheless, warrant some sort of intervention.

Janos · 16/10/2009 18:13

Are you asking if I would report someone if I had cause for concern gorionine? If so then I would like to think yes - however, I can't give an absolute 'yes' because as we know every situation is different.

I did mention before reporting myself to GP, HV etc because I was concerned.

Curiousmama · 16/10/2009 18:20

Glad to hear you saw sense and at least contacted someone. I once had to report my best mate's family to SS. Totally different circumstances but she knows I did it and still loves me Hope your friend gets some good advice.

madamearcati · 16/10/2009 18:22

In any case does the OP not think that the mother struggling to get to her asthmatic child might have made her think twice about it in future ALL BY HERSELF

!!!

wannaBe · 16/10/2009 18:29

Voicing concerns does not equal calling someone a child abuser.

How many times have you read threads on here from people worried about friends not coping/potentially suffering from PND etc and the advice has always been "could you talk to her hv?" so why is this different?

The op didn't report to ss. So she should no longer be villified for that. I don't see that speaking to HV and saying that she was concerned (and let's be fair, the op used the clean house etc as a background, she has always maintained that it was the rope that was her main concern).

I think it's actually very difficult to think about reporting someone until you're in that situation. Because we can all sit here and say "oh I would never/would without hesitation," when it's a hypothetical situation, but when you're actually faced with the prospect of picking up the phone and making that call, even anonomously, it's a huge thing to face.

Because you are faced with very mixed feelings of "If I do this, someone's life could be turned upside down. But if I don't, and something happens to that child, I will have known that there was something not right and didn't do anything about it."

lisianthus · 16/10/2009 19:08

My HV also recommended the Toddler Taming book to me.

I wish my home was a show home like this woman's, but unfortunately it is a tip, as DD has strong opinions about me putting her down and there's a limit to what you can do with one hand. I'd feel very judgey if I were a stranger looking at my place! The "crazy fascination" described by the OP could also be very subjective - it depends very much on what the OP's standards of the meaning of a "tidy house". Nothing the OP describes sounds particularly weird to me.

I just can't see why the OP couldn't call her friend to talk about the rope thing. If I was concerned enough about a child to take an extreme step such as alerting the HV or the SS which could go on a permanent record for the mother and cause the whole family (which includes the child) problems, I'd hope I would take the lesser step of talking about the rope trick with the friend first to get the full picture.

Surely if you are concerned about the child, you would be concerned enough not to want to risk her losing or destabilising her family?

facebookaddict · 16/10/2009 19:20

Sillysalley, YABU from what you have listed - overreaction although you have got to speak to friend about the rope thing re fire danger (she prob hasn't thought of this), BUT... are your maternal instinct radars out for any other subtle reasons?...

Far be it from us to prevent you from helping a child that you really thought was at risk.

Do they love the child in your opinion??? Parenting styles are v different so perhaps it is just how they do it that you are uncomfortable with, but if you are really worried and can't put your finger on why, then keep close and keep an eye out.

Definitely do as Lisad123 suggests and say to friend that HV routine check should be done re speaking. If she ignores this then that is an indicator that care is lacking....

Tallulah1978 · 16/10/2009 20:23

I think YABU - overreacting - definitely. I think it is true that Social Services are utterly overloaded with cases of SERIOUS child neglect/abuse which are not being investigated properly and children are dying and suffering as a result. It doesn't sound to me as though her children are being neglected, endangered or harmed in any way.

There can be many reasons why a 2YO is not speaking and that is for his parents to deal with as they see fit. It is also their perogative to run their home as they wish. As for the rope around the door - I suppose the suggestion of a rope conjures up images of danger because you just dont associate them with use around children, but it is no different really to other methods of securing a door if you have a wandering toddler.

A cause for concern with the speech - perhaps;

Anal about their home - we all have our ways

Rope around the door - strange - perhaps - a reason to call Social Services - nope.

If you consider her a friend, as she does you - perhaps you could try the old fashioned approach of talking to her - however difficult a conversation it may be, but then if you are so concerned, you'll overcome that.

I think if you contact SS you will open a can of worms which could hurt a lot of people.

jybay · 16/10/2009 20:56

This thread amounts to a lot of people who have never met the family in question telling the OP who knows them well that she is wrong to feel concerned. Plus a lot of people who clearly know nothing about child protection pretending they know how to recognise abuse. Sally, take no notice of them: you did the right thing.

Sassybeast · 16/10/2009 20:59

What Jyby says.

MonkeyPoo · 16/10/2009 21:38

Here here Jybay

facebookaddict · 16/10/2009 21:50

Jybag - I was trying to say similar thing in my comment but not quite as eloquently and perhaps with a little caution too...

VicarInaBooTu · 16/10/2009 22:16

yep - what jybay said too. im hiding this thread now as its starting to get to me.

TigerBitesAgain · 17/10/2009 00:44

Just wondering if the mysteriously silent OP had phoned or saw her friend to see how she is. Or has she just basked in her glory of doing the right thing.

Sorry all. No actually, not sorry at all. This thread is all wrong. I don't like show homes, but FFS, this is just completely and utterly misguided and saddening.

TigerBitesAgain · 17/10/2009 00:57

seen, not saw

skidoodle · 17/10/2009 03:31

Really shocked at the rope thing. At first I assumed the thread was one of those joke ones based on a book as it seemed impossible that anyone would do something so dangerous as tie a child into a room with rope around the door handle.

That is not the same as a hook, or a lock. It is a way of shutting a child into a room that also shuts an adult out in an emergency.

Talking about firemen kicking in doors is really crazy - ideally you don't want that to be necessary. Having fast access to a room is crucial in an emergency. In a fire you'd want to have the option of getting the child out yourself, not just think "oh we'll just leave him there 'til the fire brigade arrives rather than risk smoke inhalation while we try to untie the rope from the door handle"

it's like people who chubb lock themselves inti the house and remove the key so it is far away from the door. Scarily stupid.

AtheneNoctua · 17/10/2009 11:32

Jybay said:

"This thread amounts to a lot of people who have never met the family in question telling the OP who knows them well that she is wrong to feel concerned. Plus a lot of people who clearly know nothing about child protection pretending they know how to recognise abuse. Sally, take no notice of them: you did the right thing."

But what sillysally actually said was:

"She s not the kind of friend I would ring to have a chat with, she s a distant friend. It is my DH and her DH who are the friends really."

So actually I think no one on this thread including sillysally (the OP) knows enough about the situation to say or do much at all. She is not an informed observer from what I can tell. Talking to the "friend" would certainly be the first reasonable step. And I still wonder how her DH feels about his wife shopping his friends to SS (or whomever she called in the end).

pranma · 17/10/2009 22:22

No toys downstairs?What do the little ones do?Watch tv?Sit and suck their thumbs?How do you play with them,building and doing puzzles and playing farms etc?YANBU to ring ss.The rope thing is understandable but still not ideal.A tidy home with children worries me a lot.Clean-yes.Tidy maybe after dcs in bed.

Broke · 17/10/2009 23:34

Maybe and this is radical i know so bear with me .... she puts them away when the child has finished playing with them so she doesn't break her neck on bits of plastic all over the floor.
If you really think that is a matter to be concerned over get yourself down to the playground of your local council estate, honestly you'll shit your pants.

anonymous85 · 18/10/2009 02:46

Rope on the door

gorionine · 18/10/2009 10:02

from Wannabe "How many times have you read threads on here from people worried about friends not coping/potentially suffering from PND etc and the advice has always been "could you talk to her hv?" so why is this different?"

I will expalin why I said that (to me)it amounts to accusing her of shild abuse. Because if I had the same concerns as OP and was only assume my friend had difficulties coping/was suffering from PND I would sit down and talk to her and ask if I could help. I would probably also advise her to go and see her GP/HV to get some more professional help. I would not take these steps for her.

Now If I would really go to officials myself if I was concerned there is some abuse issues. by doing that I wopuld effectuvely "accuse" her af child abuse IMHO.

I do not find it hard to understand OP is concerned, I find it hard to understand that the first thing she thought about was to "refer" her friends (first to SS, then changed her mind and contacted her friend's HV) rather than talk to her first to see what the situation really was. Surely after a nice friendly chat she would have been clearer on what the situation actually was and see wether she could just be there and help her friend through bad times or indeed if she should take the matter further. But maybe thet is just me. I do agree that I am "identifying" with OP's friend in the sense that if I was not really coping, I would wish for someone to offer a friendly ear and support rather than calling my HV .

Pranma, I very seldomly have toys downsatairs because DD4 loves dancing, playing chasing games, hide & seek or just follow me arround and "help" me with the house chores. I usually only have toys downstairs if someone is coming (not to pretend ) but because it is the only time I really like her to play on her own so I can actualy for 1/2-1 hour have a grown up discussion with a friend. the rest of the time I am still her "favourite toy". BTW she is 3 and only really started talking about 6 month ago and believe me with chatterboxes for parents and siblings she is definitely not lacking stimulation. It is just the way some children are.

gorionine · 18/10/2009 10:07

sorry for apalling grammar & spelling!

ShinyAndNew · 18/10/2009 10:28

I'm going to keep my doors locked and not have guests any more!! It seems your damned if you damned if you don't sometimes. You are reported for having your house too clean and reported for having your house too messy.

I'm not jumping in and having a go at the op btw, just a bit taken aback by how the tidiness of the friends house was such an issue. Is not okay to like having a nice house when you have children?

I'm not sure if the op did the right thing or not, by ringing HV. As I said in my first post, I didn't visit the house so couldn't really say. I told the op to follow her instincts, but from what I had read I personally would not have reported.

I do wonder why the op couldn't just give the friend a ring and have a chat with her though.

I think the emphasis on the tidy house is probably what caused the thread to kick off the way it did. I wonder if the response would have been different if the op had expressed her concerns differently?