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AIBU?

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Original poster

to consider reporting friend to SS?

456 replies

sillysalley · 14/10/2009 22:42

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

OP posts:
katiestar · 16/10/2009 10:00

It truly scares me.What sort of society have we become ?

StealthPolarBear · 16/10/2009 10:00

the parents put the child in danger, there's no denying that. I hope they've realised how stupid they were and sure they have but that isn't for the OP to judge. Don't give a stuff if it's in a "popular parenting book" people need to use the sense they were born with and take some responsibility for their actions.

StealthPolarBear · 16/10/2009 10:02

hmm DMNC
not convinced

katiestar · 16/10/2009 10:02

The book is recommended by HVs round here.

StealthPolarBear · 16/10/2009 10:03

ks in that case I'd have expected her to tell the OP all fine, nothing to be concerned about, thanks for the call. she didn't.

StealthPolarBear · 16/10/2009 10:04

"It truly scares me.What sort of society have we become ? "
one that allows children to die horribly rather than getting involved.

katiestar · 16/10/2009 10:05

Don't know any children who have died from living in a tidy house !

DailyMailNameChanger · 16/10/2009 10:07

I know, it is not an easy one but the fact is that something has to be done and SSD cannot do anything about annon malicious reports. In fact no-one can, someone can report you every day for anything they like and nothing can be done about it if it is annonomous.

I am not overly convinced and it even crossed my mind that I should report the poor SW who made that judgement - just incase it was a mistake and she then made that same mistake elsewhere and endangered somone... In the end I decided it was not but I gave it a lot of thought as I am a believer in confidentiality, I have to be in my industry!

TigerBitesAgain · 16/10/2009 10:11

Stealth - I don't think anyone is saying "don't get involved WHERE THERE IS REASON TO DO SO". But based on what OP told us in her first post - which hasn't been added to: to her credit OP hasn't drip fed nuggets of damning information later on - this just isn't something which honestly merits formal intervention. That is the problem.

BloodRedTulips · 16/10/2009 10:15

To all those who've said 'An obsession with having a clean house isn't a sign of abuse' or variations of that statement.. that's actually completely incorrect.

I've had three seperate HVs tell me when i apologised about the mess in my house 'Don't be silly, we like to see a lived in house, it's when it's too clean that we worry'

As for the gates... in the event of a fire a child can be lifted over a gate, much safer than a rope tying the door shut. We live in rented accomodation so can't damage the walls and door frames with gates so we use pressure mounted gates... surely that's an option for the OP's 'friend'? It sounds as if it's the look of the gates they dislike.

Locking a non verbal child who can't shout for help into his room is a frightening and dangerous thing to do and i'm utterly gobsmacked at the amount of posters who think it's ok.... are these the same posters who get up in arms about fruit shoots, Maccy D's and an occasional slap?

It never fails to amaze me how utterly skewed some peoples priorities can be

Good for you sillysalley for ringing the HV, it sounds from her comments that you've most definitely done the right thing and you deserve a pat on the back for going with your gut instincts despite all the bizarre comments on this thread

I hope that family gets the help they clearly need to be better parents.

wannaBe · 16/10/2009 10:15

so the message is that no matter how concerned you are about a child you must stick by the parent?

I hardly think the HV is worth reporting. So she said there are other reasons she needs to visit this friend. Who's to say she was talking about issues wrt the welfare of the child - perhaps she needs to see her for his two year check, perhaps there are other children who need to be seen for whatever reason. If the hv had said "yes I am concerned about this child's welfare" then she would be breaching confidentiality, but to state that she needs to see this woman wrt some things is hardly a breach of confidentiality is it?

wannaBe · 16/10/2009 10:20

and as for "well it's written in a book," I seem to recall an ongoing legal battle wrt what was written in a popular parenting book a few years ago which also seems to be highly recommended by hv's. just because it's written in a book doesn't make it right.

And wtf is people's obsession about nobody having died. Dying isn't the only sign of abuse you know.

DailyMailNameChanger · 16/10/2009 10:21

BRT, that is what they say to make you feel better, not a basis for judgement on others!

Pressure mounted gates do cause damage to walls. Also to the paint and wallpaper.

Wannbe, you are quite right, it could just be that the HV usually does a follow up at this stage/needs something signing or even was just trying to assure the op that she had not created extra work for anyone by ringing up. Not really a big deal TBH.

fernie3 · 16/10/2009 10:26

I have a gate on my sons door my house is not tidy and he had speech therapy because he was so late talking (didnt say anything at 2 years old). He also has behaviour problems and has injured himself on a number of occasions with his out of control running into things falling off things etc. Oh and once he got hold of weed killer and drunk that (luckily it was organic so no harm done!).

better report me quick!

seriously she sounds odd but I dont think there is any abuse going on here, sounds like she has found it difficult to accept some of the changes children bring

sophie

katiestar · 16/10/2009 10:27

Bloodredtulips
1 The HV was being KIND to you
2 I presume you have never used a stairgate or put a child in a cot he can't get out of.Otherwise your argument doesn't make sense.Those pressure mounted gates are actually pretty dangerous and prone to collapse especially if the aperture you are fitting them in is not perfectly plumb.
Untying a proper knot in a rope would only take a matter of seconds.
I don't get this business of children being unsafe shut up in their room at night.Surely the risk is much less than the risk of what a child could do wandering round the house unsupervised in the dark, dead of night ?

BloodRedTulips · 16/10/2009 10:29

Actually, one of the HVs went into more detail, it's apparently an official red flag that requires further investigation if a house seems obsessively clean to the point of there being no visable sign of children living in the home or more importantly if it seems that the children aren't allowed/encouraged to play with toys. I'm in ireland, maybe in england it's not an issue as judging by the tone of this thread a clean home seems more important than healthy happy children

wannaBe · 16/10/2009 10:31

and another thing - the op spoke to her hv not ss. At the end of the day neither the op or any one of us on here are qualified to know whether there really is an issue wrt the welfare of this child. So if we have concerns then sometimes we have to seek the input of someone who is more able to make a judgement call. The HV is more middle ground IMO.

pruneplus2 · 16/10/2009 10:36

An official red flag? How do they police a bloody spotlessly clean home? Spot checks covering a 24 hour period, all day, every day?? Is there a sigh of relief when they pop round one day and theres a toy on the floor?

I just dont get any of this.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 10:37

Skinsl, is there by any chance a picture of how it is done on your book? Just so you could describe it to us to maybe have a better idea of what it implies (does it completely shut the door close as would a key or does it just stop the door opening more than a certain width?)

katiestar · 16/10/2009 10:40

I think your HV is talking out of her proverbial !
A clean house and happy children aren't mutually exclusive ! Anybody with a cleaning lady , atoy box hidden behind the sofa and who has a tidy round before a guest arrives, or keeps one room in the house clutter free is an abuser ?
I think this whole thread is one of the most ridiculous i have ever come across

skinsl · 16/10/2009 10:47

Here's what he says.... like I said not saying I agree with it.

Take a length of rope and loop one end around the inner handle of the toddlers bedroom door. Attach the other end to the outer handle of a nearby door. Carefully adjust the rope so that when the bedroom door is pulled open, the aperture is just a little less than the diameter of the offending child's head. As all of you who have had babies know, if the head is not going to get out, nothing is. The result is that the toddler is not locked in, they just cannot get out.
A light should be left on in the passageway outside the bedroom, so that the child can see and hear what is going on around the house, This means that the child will not become frightened, yet at the same time he is made very aware that bed is the place he is meant to be. he may resort to crying to break your resolve but once again this ploy will fail when you use the rope trick in conjunction with the controlled crying technique

he then goes on to describe a time when a child's head got stuck... great

katiestar · 16/10/2009 10:54

You might not agree with it skinsi , but that is a far cry from considering it to be abuse.
And please can someone tell me what is so great about a toddler free to wander the house during the night ?

gorionine · 16/10/2009 10:55

Thank you skinsl!

I do not agree with it either, nor do I agree with controlled crying but I do not think it does qualifie as child abuse.

The mum/parents have not locked the door to punish the child or because they could not have cared less what happened to him/her, they just found (a not too good) way of avoiding their DC to fall down non gated stairs if waking in the middle of the night. Really she needs a good friend to tell her it is not a good idea, not being refered to SS.

Oblomov · 16/10/2009 10:58

Just bookmarking .
Can't wait to get my teeth into this thread.
Back in a minute, once read all posts.

Oblomov · 16/10/2009 11:11

I have now read thread. I am saddened. You are all authority mad. Report her, report her. Makes me truely sad.
Why don't you mind your own business.
I fail to see that her children are in danger or being abused in any way shape or form.
How have we suddenly become a society that thinks they have the right to report to hv or ss ?
Begars belief.
I disagree with just about everthing wannabe has written. Which is odd becasue I normally don't. But on this I do.

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