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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to consider reporting friend to SS?

456 replies

sillysalley · 14/10/2009 22:42

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

OP posts:
Oblomov · 16/10/2009 15:47

What katiestar says is true.
I went to my new GP to ask for help. I ended up being referred to SS, and asked to leave the GP practice.
I am now having meeting with the Practice Manager, 3 doctors , the Hv, the woman from PALS and an outside source, to try and get the misquotes, inaccuracies and mistakes corrected.
My PALS lady thinks that what has happened to me is an " over-reaction, due to baby P and Clumie" and a "total injustice"
I went to ask for help and look what happened to me. My trust and faith in going to a GP has been distroyed(although I have a lovely new one and things with her are great). The strain has been terrible. My diabetes has gone mad because of the stress.
please don't underestimate what these things can mean.
Mud sticks. And I will never be able to it removed from my medical records.

Maybe some of you, who think that you have grounds to ring even the HV, should think again.
You have no idea what an awful awful thing this is, to happen to you.

Janos · 16/10/2009 15:51

Yes, she has been Tiger.

People have gone on and on about what an awful, thoughtless person she is and some length, speculated on her motives, called her a spy and a snitch, implied she was jealous because the friend had such a tidy house (actually that was one of the 'nicer' things) etc etc.

No-one has made any allegations and lest we forget the parents concerned did actually put their child in danger by tying the door up with a rope they couldn't easily unfasten - so her concern wasn't entirely unjustified, was it?

Janos · 16/10/2009 15:55

I'm Sorry you've had such a difficult time oblmov. That does sound truly stressful

I too have had involvement from SS and HV too (due to severe PND) and found them very helpful and supportive so I don't see them as automatically bad or out to 'get' parents who might be having difficulties.

All of that is on my medical records too. I know it doesn't 'go away'.

Oblomov · 16/10/2009 16:06

Thank you Janos.
Atleast you understand. I know that not all hv are bad. ds2(11 mths) hv is lovely. She thinks i do a grand job. As do I. In difficult circumstances I have managed brilliantly. She is shocked at other hv's view - this is the ds1's (5.9) hv who suggested referral to ss, but who hasn't seen me or my son for 3.5 years !! Infact she hasn't even been his hv since aged 2, and he is nearly 6. If I told you all the details of my case, I think you would be shocked.
Anyway, sorry, this is not the place for this - on someone elses thread.

TigerBitesAgain · 16/10/2009 16:06

The OP asked for people's opinions in AIBU. She got them. I do think she has been completely reckless in her high handed treatement of a friend. I don't really care whether she's upset by that or not.

ChunkyMonkeysMum · 16/10/2009 16:25

Going back to the OP:

"Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is"

What I don't understand is how she can say this when she quite clearly says in a later post:

"The thing is I dont get to see friend too much and often what I do see is "

So, if you don't see someone very much (she says in one of her posts that she won't see her again for a couple of months now), how can you know that her & her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping their house like a show house ?? Perhaps they just like to make sure it is clean & tidy before visitors come. She also doesn't elaborate on what exactly is so shocking every time she see's this "friend".

She also says:

"no baby gates allowed"

Well, as others have said, some rental properties do not allow you to have baby gates. I can understand why, as my house has really flimsy plasterboard walls & the gate at the bottom of my stairs has pinged through the plasterboard, making an unsightly hole in the wall.

"children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom"

Does she know this for a fact? She doesn't say. Maybe they are allowed to bring in one or two things at a time like I was as a child but have to keep them stored in their bedrooms. Fair enough as far as I'm concerned.

"children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc"

It's not like they're not allowed on the sofa at all is it ?? A few months ago we bought a new leather sofa that cost us £3000. I'm sorry if it makes me a bad mother, but I do not allow my kids to wear belts or buckles on it either as I cannot afford to replace it or get it repaired should it get damaged, and tbh why should I?! It's not often they wear things with belts and buckles at the age of 2 anyway is it??!

She also describes this woman as her friend and in her next post she says:

"she is a friend and I wouldnt want her to go through any heart ache"

But then when she is asked why she would even consider doing this to a friend, she backtracks & says:

"She s not the kind of friend I would ring to have a chat with, she s a distant friend. It is my DH and her DH who are the friends really."

As for the rope on the door handle at night. Personally I wouldn't do it, but I cannot even begin to see why anyone would see this as abuse. As I said before, I had a hook & eye latch on DS1's door for a couple of weeks a few years back to stop him coming out of his room at night. Should I be reported too ?

She said she doesn't see this woman very often, it will be a couple of months before she sees her again, so on average probably only sees her 5 or 6 times a year max. How the hell can she make a judgement about someone & how they are with their kids & whether or not there is some kind of abuse going on from that little contact?

IMO, calling the woman's HV is a major interference & I would be so angry to think of any of my so-called friends doing this just because of the few things mentioned in the OP. If there were serious, genuinely serious, concerns of child abuse, then yes, report the person concerned, but as far as I can see, there is nothing that jumps out at me as a serious concern, just a different way of living and parenting.

VicarinaBooTu - I can't begin to imagine what you went through as a child, but your situation is entirely different.
You said yourself, people heard what was going on. The children described by the OP are not being beaten, there is absolutely nothing that is apparent child abuse from what the OP has described, unlike your situation. Please bear that in mind.
Just because most of us haven't been through it, doesn't mean we would just sweep any concerns under the carpet, but they would have to be based on what we know, not just what we assume, like the OP.

(apologies for the length of this post. Got a bit carried away! )

Janos · 16/10/2009 16:30

Sorry to hear that Oblomov, I can only imagine. It sounds awful.

I thought it might bring some perspective to show SS and HV can be postive sources of support and not just interfering 'bogeymen' types.

Ripeberry · 16/10/2009 16:41

My parents used to tie me and my brother in our beds in the 70's. They bought a 'product' that guaranteed that your kids would stay in bed.
It just pulled your sheets really tight around you.
We soon learned to make ourselves 'big' so we could slip out
They soon gave up!

ChunkyMonkeysMum · 16/10/2009 16:47

OMG Ripeberry

I didn't know you could actually ever buy something like that.

I think it's really funny that you managed to get yourselves out of it

gorionine · 16/10/2009 17:02

Janos I think you have double standards.

At no point did I call Op any names but yes I made my opinion very clear that calling SS would not have been the right thing to do in the circumstances she described. The op title state what her intentions were and this is what most people answered to.

Ditto CMM.

Ripeberry · 16/10/2009 17:04

Chunky Monkey, this was when we lived in Switzerland. They thought it was acceptable to beat children with belts . Never us, but my best friend, he always got it really bad from his dad who ran the Sunday school.

bellavita · 16/10/2009 17:08

My mother told me she used to put reins on my brother in the cot and keep him reined in so he could not climb out - this was in the late 60's

gorionine · 16/10/2009 17:10

I am Swiss and am really that you would think it is common practice there. Your friend dad was vile maybe but it does not mean it is commonly accepted behaviour in Switzerland.

Janos · 16/10/2009 17:15

How do I have double standards gorionne? because I object to someone vilified for something they haven't actually done?

If so, I stand guilty as charged.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 17:24

No but because you think it is ok for her to vilifie someone who as far as we know has not done anything reprehensible either.

Janos · 16/10/2009 17:24

Apolos for mis-spelling your name gorionine. Not intentional, just bad eyesight!

wannaBe · 16/10/2009 17:27

But sometimes it takes people to challenge certain practices in order to make them unacceptable.

Thirty years ago it was completely acceptable to use a belt/slipper/other implement to discipline a child. The cane was widely used in schools. It was only because people challenged that that practices changed and now using implements to discipline children is certainly no longer acceptable and in fact even smacking a child and leaving a mark is now illegal.

So just because a book says that it's ok to tie a rope around a bedroom door doesn't mean that it is. And maybe someone needs to challenge that too.

The op has been treated abismally on this thread. And no, posting in ibu does not give people licence to treat people how the hell they want.

Perhaps ss are bogged down with unnecessary referrals, thus preventing cases such as baby p. But perhaps baby p happened because people like those on this thread decided that reporting someone to ss was wrong, and that abusing a child was perfectly acceptable. We all have our own limits as to what is and what isn't acceptable after all.

Janos · 16/10/2009 17:29

She's not 'vilifying' her though is she?

She's contacted the HV who is in a good position to help, if needed. If she doesn't then it goes no further, end of story. What's wrong with that?

gorionine · 16/10/2009 17:35

Janos have you often though of reporting friends who have not done anything wrong in your eyes? The simple fact that she considered calling means she think her friend is a child abuser. If that it not vilifying I do not know what is. But maybe I am wrong and it is just an act of kindness[ fron OP.

spookyrookie · 16/10/2009 17:45

My mother used to be a paedetrican ( and yet I can't even spell it ) like one other poster said when she did home visits she was concerned when she saw a show home and there were no toys out as it tended to be in these cases where children had speech and developmental delays due to lack of interaction.

I hasten to add that this does not of course mean that everyone with a tidy house has an at risk child, of course not, but to me it seems in this case that the OP has acted correctly based on her instincts and some events which do not seem correct to her and this appears to be backed up by the HVs reaction.

Surely the point of having teams of professionals involved in child welfare means that if one has well grounded concerns they can be raised with them, otherwise they seem fairly pointless.

Janos · 16/10/2009 17:49

Well she thought of it, yes but she didn't do it as she swiftly realised it would be an over-reaction!

I also mentioned further up the thread that I have had positive experience of HV and SS myself, and so I don't think their involvement is necessarily a bad thing.

They can actually provide support where needed which benefits the parents and the children.

AvrilH · 16/10/2009 17:49

wannabe - if you change the rules on a whim, and treat anyone whose childrearing practices you disagree with as child abusers, any of us could find ourselves in Oblomov's position.

Janos · 16/10/2009 17:55

"Janos have you often though of reporting friends who have not done anything wrong in your eyes?"

No, I can honestly say I haven't considered reporting anyone, ever. Except I suppose reporting 'myself' to the doctors, hv etc.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 17:57

As Oblomov said, mud sticks and even if the incident has "only" been reported to HV, it is now on record somewhere that someone once suspect her of child abuse.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 18:01

Sorry, I seem to be X-posting a lot

Janos do you not think that if you had reported anyone to your HV it would mean you believe that person to be doing something wrong enough to justifie reporting? and if you report you are in actual fact vilifying (when your concerns are about a house being too tidy...)

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