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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to consider reporting friend to SS?

456 replies

sillysalley · 14/10/2009 22:42

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

OP posts:
Oblomov · 16/10/2009 11:19

Remind me , ALWAYS when I post:
Never tell anyone anything on Mn, INCASE I GET REPORTED.
Never go to park/shopping/ ANYWHERE, IN CASE I GET REPORTED.
Never invite anyone, especially not the OP, who it now transpires is clearly not a friend, doesn't know the woman very well etc etc, never invite anyone into my house for a coffee, IN CASE I GET REPORTED.

You have all made me frightened to LIVE . Honestly, I DESPAIR.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 11:23

I know what you mean Oblomov, it is a scary thought.

Broke · 16/10/2009 11:48

It's just such a shame nobody can go to this woman, make her a cup of tea and talk to her about what happened and compliment her on her lovely child.
I'd like to think that's what the HV will do, fingers crossed.
I've never had a bad one so hopefully the Nazi ones are an urban myth.

VicarInaBooTu · 16/10/2009 11:54

but if someone had reported their concerns when i was a 7 year old i would have been saved from a further 8 years - and i was frequently in and out of hospital, teachers must have noticed, doctors must have noticed, other parents DEFINITELY did notice because as an adult i spoke to my childhood neighbours, and they confirmed they heard what went on but were too scared to do anything. the onus was left to me and i reported it when i was 11, and because i was a child my abusers managed to wriggle out of it with a million and one excuses, which subjected me to yet more abuse for longer. i left home at 15.

this thread could be absolutely nothing - this parent might be totally innocent - but is it really really worth taking the risk? the HV will now have something to start to assess. if its nothing then she will have nothing to act on - if its just advice the parent needs then great - she will get some. if there are deeper concerns then hopefully they will too be acted upon.

i totally totally think that silleysally did the right think 100%. she didnt phone SS - she spoke to a HV. spot on. i think if more people trusted their instincts instead of looking the other way more kids would be helped and sooner.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 11:55

Broke I am going to be stalking you from now on!

You seem to be a fantastic positive person!

gorionine · 16/10/2009 12:05

VicarinaBooTu, I am very saddened that you have had such a difficult childhood and yes if people have heard you suffer and did nothing they are as bad as the person who abused you.

Op is considering reporting a friend because :

  • her house is too tidy
  • her DC does not speak as much as Op thinks she should
  • she has followed an advice given in a book about raising children (stupid advice so be it).

I do not think these two situations can be compared at all.

katiestar · 16/10/2009 12:07

And its because people are cluttering up SS and HV with this kind of rubbish , where there are no reasonable grounds for concern,that mean there are less resources for the Baby P's and Victoria Cs out there!
Where there are genuine and serious grounds for concern then yes intervention is necessary ,but some folk just seem to have very poor judgment.
I get sick of the 'if there's nothing wrong-no harm done' argument.If somebody made a malicious/ridiculous complaint about me it I would be very seriously affected mentally and emotionally and I think my relationship with my DCs would become less natural too.

Broke · 16/10/2009 12:08

Vicar this is a pointless excercise because everything has changed since we were children, I was beaten by my step father with a leather belt when I was 9 and then ran away from home to my fathers house, the police collected me, saw the marks and took me home where I got another hiding for running off.
That was what it was like 25 years ago.
Now it's gone too far the other way to the point where I am actually not kidding when I say of course the midwife and health visitor will see me when I've had my baby but I shall not be inviting "friends" into my home and I shall be keeping my gob shut whether I'm coping or not. I don't feel it's safe to ask for help from anyone but DH and that's a dangerous situation to be in.

katiestar · 16/10/2009 12:10

And we wonder why so many mothers are depressed !

2kidzandi · 16/10/2009 12:18

Have you really thought about what the consequences of your silly and flippant action to ring the NSPCC will be, both for the dc involved and his parents O.P?

Do you think the care system is some kind of lovely, warm, fuzzy environment for DCs? Most of the time it is not. At worst it causes more harm to the DC than the parents.

Once you have been reported to NSPCC you stay on their lists for a while. Consider. Maybe shortly after raising issues with HV and NSPCC your 'friend' DC has a genuine accident. What do you think the HV/doctor will do when they realise this child has had previous concerns raised about it's safety?

When I was little we were poor. The entire living room, let alone sofa was off-limits to us.

Oh and my DS didn't start speaking bang on 2 either. I had PD and know what it feels like to have unjustified concerns raised about your parenting.

If you report them, then I hope your 'friend' finds out that it was you.

Makes a mockery of genuine child abuse.

justaboutautumn · 16/10/2009 12:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

2kidzandi · 16/10/2009 12:30

I skim-read some of this post. You mean you spoke to the HV O.P? Without even speaking to your friend first?

Can only say with friends like you....

Janos · 16/10/2009 12:33

Aren't some people here working themselves into a ridiculous paranoid froth over what the OP might or might not have done?

If you read back she HASN'T reported to SS and decided not to do this early on as she realised it would be an over-reaction.

We don't even know whether or not she has spoken to NSPCC!

I very much doubt, even if she did speak to them (NSPCC) that asking for advice would lead to social workers swooping down and taking the children into care.

2kidzandi · 16/10/2009 12:45

No they might not swoop down. But it does mean that that the HV concerns will remain in the child's notes. And if he does later have some un-related accident they might then be investigated even though they are completely innocent, all because they want to preserve the expensive furniture, and possibly prevent burglars from easy entrance to their DCs room at night? (O.P. hasn't even bothered to ask her friends motives for putting a rope around the door,she just assumes)

Janos · 16/10/2009 12:54

All this 'could do' and 'might happen' and 'what if' - how about what has actually happened? Very little.

OP has been pulled to bits and all because she expressed concern for a child and asked for some advice.

People really have worked themselves up into a complete state over not very much at all.

AvrilH · 16/10/2009 13:02

Good grief

SillySalley, you come accross as a spiteful woman. I am in disbelief that you rang your "friend"'s health visitor on these frivolous grounds. And even more so at her response to you.

And also contacting the NSPCC. Have you no idea of the damage you could do, and the misery your vindictiveness could bring? Destabilising a family, primarily because you resent their house looking like a show room, FFS

Rope on the door is advised in Toddler Taming by Christopher Green - the book my health visitor said she would reccomend before all others, and one my friends swear by. When I was a child, no children I knew were permitted to enter the sitting room in their own homes, never mind the sofa.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 13:17

Janos, the same could be said about Op's "friend", what actually happened? very little. But op still considered calling SS.

jybay · 16/10/2009 13:29

OP, please don't listen to your detractors on here. Most of them seem to know very little about abuse and to be so caught up with identifying with the mother that they are downplaying the child's welfare.

There are 4 broad categories of child abuse: sexual, physical and emotional abuse plus neglect. It sounds as if you are mainly concerned about emotional abuse. This is very difficult to identify but the sorts of behaviours you have seen in your friend can be signs of it, though of course they may not be. It is incredibly difficult to diagnose abuse, even for professionals. I wonder how the "experts" insulting you on here are able to be so certain that the child is fine. Unlike me, they probably don't spend their working lives dealing with the consequences of unrecognised abuse.

Acting on your concerns must have been very difficult for you as the mother's friend. You have done a very brave thing. I hope that your fears will turn out to be ungrounded but you still did the right thing.

madamearcati · 16/10/2009 13:37

jybay Have you ever heard the expression 'when you're looking for horses you find horse shoes on ants'
That's the trouble with 'experts' in child abuse - they are not experts in what is normal

gorionine · 16/10/2009 13:42

Well a good friend might have actually sit down with friend and asked if everything was ok, if friend could cope and if not if there was something she(op) could do to help? I think this is the sort of thing that could be sorted by caring, and I actually mean caring, not interfiering, judging and refering to the autorities!

madamearcati · 16/10/2009 13:46

What are the indications the woman can't cope ???? Sounds like she is more than coping to me.

gorionine · 16/10/2009 13:56

Are you asking that to me madamearcati?

I do not think the woman cannot cope either, I was just saying that if OP had concerns (which is actually why she wrote the thread I suppose)SHe really should have sit down with her friend an try to help if needed.

2kidzandi · 16/10/2009 14:50

Oh for goodness sake Jybay, 'emotional abuse' Why, because there's a recession on and the parents want to keep their expensive sofa looking good for a few years?

And the fact that the child isn't talking yet means nothing what-so-ever - the amount of parents I've spoken to at one o'clock clubs with that problem would mean that SS would be innundated.

So the mother kept a rope on the door. O.K. not necessarily wise, but not unheard of and a decent friend would point that out. Hardly cause to call the professionals in.

And have you seen the state of some hospitals? I personally wouldn't want my DS staying in one for longer than strictly necessary either.

By these definitions not only am I a potential child abuser but so are all the other parents on my street then. Sometimes people need advice and or help. Not interference from some social body.

Janos · 16/10/2009 15:05

Yeah but she DIDN'T call SS did she gorionne? She decided, herself, that would be inappropriate. So everyone is getting massively worked up about something she DIDN'T ACTUALLY DO.

Again - the only thing OP has done wrong has display concern for a child and asked for some advice. And for this she's been absolutely ripped to pieces!

TigerBitesAgain · 16/10/2009 15:17

Janos

The OP hasn't been ripped to pieces as you put it. She posted a question in AIBU, suggesting that she had some doubt about the propriety of what she had in mind. Posters responded. There are strong feelings both ways. You'll have read my posts so you see what I think.

The OP could have posted on WWYD or chat or parenting or something, if she didn't want to get a strong response. She could have described the situation and her concerns and tested the waters if she didn't really know what she wanted to do but I suspect she was going to report this whatever was said here.

She goes ahead and refers this to the HV. The only person who is likely to be ripped to shreds about this is her "friend".