to be so annoyed at seeing pregnant women smoking.....

[CakeandFineWine]

GGGRRRHH.

Following my miscarriage 2 weeks ago. granted I'm a little raw...

But god it annoys me when I quit smoking before I even starting TTC, I didn't drink a drop, took my folic acid and followed the do's and don'ts of foods to the T.
And still MC'ed
And I see pregnant ladies walking around smoking or drinking in pubs..........

ITS SO UNJUST!!!!!!!

It is when people start using words like "allow" and "banned" and "laws" I start to worry.

If it is OK to say a pregnant woman is not allowed to smoke, then it will probably be OK to say she isn't allowed to drink, then she shouldn't be allowed to have caffeine, all foods "not approved" for pregnancy should not be sold to her and so on and so forth. The steps are small but once the door is opened, they will be taken.

If the activity is legal then there must not be different laws for different people.

Alypaly - there'a absolutely nothing wrong with carrying on exercise, even of the bouncy kind,in pregnancy, it actually is encouraged.

I haven't read any research papers, but I did read a statistic on SIDS and smoking mothers, I can't remember exactly but the vast majority of SIDS deaths were to babies whose mothers had smoked while pg. Seems obvious to me, if a baby stops breathing or has problems breathing, and their mother ingested harmful chemicals into her bloodstream whilst pg, how could there not be a link?

aly "banging up and down whilst horseriding"? For the love of god - your pelvis is designed the way it is so that your baby does NOT fly around willy-nilly. Are you seriously suggesting that pregnancy be handled by way of lying on the sofa with a catheter in? It's actually that you think this way. c.f., bungee-jumping makes your poo come out of your mouth!

yes i realise that as i play alot of sport,but i depends to what extent and how far on you are in your pregnancy. I was a windsurfer til i found out i was three months pregnant ( then i stopped because of the heavy lifting of the sail)I also skied until i was 2 months gone with DS2 but i was scared of someone hitting me.And i played alot of badminton in my second pregnancy til i realised it could affect my joints because of the changes in the elasticity of the cartilage. I am a great advocate of healthy exercise as long as it doesnt risk baby or a miscarriage.

kat2907 actually babies born to smoking mothers have a lower instance of lung disease then non smoking mothers! There's no evidence that liks any one thing to SIDs. If you are talking chemicals in your blood you really need to start looking at everything you consume and come into contact with aswell as what you percieve as being the 'obvious ones'...seriously, start looking at the ingredients in your food, water, shampoo, clothes, cleaning/decorating products used in every place you go...the list is endless and just as scary.

alypaly The foetus is so well protected in the abdomen in the first 12 weeks that you would need to be pierced in the uterus itself (this was told to me by a sports doctor) for there to be an issue. So "bumping in to someone" is absolute bumfp. I guess it's a personal judgement call on lifting a sail for example. I'm glad you did sport - but please don't go perpetuating untruths in the name "of the baby"! I fail to see the utter hysteria associated with sport though.

Sorry to go back off topic to the skiing issue- of course it's bloody dangerous to ski while pregnant!

Aside from the balance issue (pregnancy affects your centre of gravity) even the best skier in the world is not immune to a freak accident, and let's not forget the risk of being hit by another skier (something that's happened to 3 people I know, including a skiing instructor who was stationary at the time- he ended up with a broken back).

And re the beginner's slope etc- I have 2 words for you- Natasha Richardson.

Skiing is dangerous, period.

skihorse i dint just mean being bumoed into on a ski slope,you know what it can be like...you can get severely injured and hit at very high speed whilst skiing and also fall really heavily... so i dont agree that bumping into someone is just bumpf...it depends how hard... which bits are untruths ( lies)

To the OP am so very sorry for your loss.

YANBU for how you are feeling but as others have said, what others do or don't do with their bodies (in pregnancy or out of) has no impact on you.

When I see pregnant women smoking, I simply look away and put it out of my mind. I dont know their circumstances and it is not my place to judge.
I concentrate on me, my pregnancy, continue to do my best and simply hope that all will be well.

Has anyone mentioned how annoying it is to see pregnant women who are impoverished and can't support their child?

Or their umpteenth baby to some feckless twunt they late complain about on these boards?

anonafcr - by that rationale a pregnant woman should refrain from driving a car or crossing the road, too. There could always be accidents. Never mind big pianos falling from the sky onto her head.

FFS, pregnancy doesn't render one disabled.

whos hysterical?

i couldnt bear to see women sitting around ,catheterised... exercise is best for everyone,,for body and soul, baby...swimming,but not things that have possible dangerous implications.
A firnd of mine played badminton til she was 37 weeks and now she is paying the penalty. She has got to wear a knee brace on her left knee for life as all jher ligaments ahev permenantly stretched dur to softening by progesterone.
I would hate to have had a miscarriage and i feel greatly for you CakeandFineWine

The crap people tell themselves to justify their selfish actions is hilarious.

WW the comparison with driving is disigenuous (I won't even go there with crossing the road ).

Driving is statistically the safest form of transport there is. People in cars have the added protection of seatbelts and airbags. Skiing (like horseriding) is a dangerous sport- regardless of your competence. In fact the better skiers are at risk of more dangerous accidents.

I am all for sport and physical activity while pregnant- it is indeed recommended. But how can we deny that some sports are dangerous? If you want to exercise during pregnancy, you can jog, swim, play tennis, do aerobics etc. the list is practically endless.

No-one is suggesting that pregnant women are disabled or should lock themselves at home (although following your argument that's also dangerous- I guess they could book a padded cell in a special facility somewhere until their baby's bown). And yes, accidents can happen to anyone at any time.

However, some activities/sports/behaviours are riskier than others. Why would you want to put your unborn child through that?

hear hear anonacfr

somewhathorrified i am with you! i have searched the net for absolutes on the matter of evidence against smoking and thus far having read lots of studies and have been shocked at how little evidence that there actually is. for example, facts such as the massive and steady increase in childhood asthma or premature delivery of babies directly conflict with the fact that smoking rates have been massively and steadily decreasing over the same time period?!!!

Also, why is it that most people don't question what they are told. something which i find baffling is the prescribing of nicotine replacement therapy to pregnant women. if nicotine 'contracts the blood vessles reducing bloodflow to the feotus' how is it sensible to offer a higher dose of nicotine than the womdan usually consumes through her fags (this is how it works)???

And, did you know that smokers have far less hypertension during pregnancy than non smokers...ehh, if smoking cloggs the arteries surely this dosent quite add up?

im not saying smoking is a good thing to do in pregnancy or not but i wish people would question more. what are the real reasons for this witch hunt on smokers? perhaps the question of a rise in asthma or prem babies or cancer of all types inc. childhood cancer is being scapegoated and really is a reflection of other sinister perhaps corporate crimes? things we take for granted such Spray cleaners... which if you use as directed will be inhaled. (for those of you who like to encourage pictographic imagary) picture this... there are skid marks on the toilet bowl. you use bleach and bingo they vanish, the bleach has absoluely destroyed the organic matter in your loo. now spray that bleach on to your work surfaces...breath deep now...your lungs are organic matter too btw!

i could go on and on... this is turning into a rant and im not even pro smoking lol! i just think there is more to this picture and that, those of you who read the bumpf and not the studies to come to your opinions are misguided and, are inadvertantly being used to exert your social pressure onto a vulnerable group of people 99% of which do care are deeply ashamed of thier habit and would stop if they could.

No, driving is not the safest form of transport. Look at the statistics. And potentially a minor accident in a car can endanger a pregnancy way more than the occasional ciggy (if it's occasional cigarettes we are talking about. A 60 a day habit is a different matter)

smoking doesnt clog the arteries it causes systolic hypertension in the heart which is different. It increases the blood pressure by up to 20 mm/hg which could push you over the safe levels.
this is from a reliable website....

Smoking in pregnancy increases the risk of:
Miscarriage.
Complications of pregnancy, including bleeding during pregnancy, detachment of the placenta, premature birth, and ectopic pregnancy.

Low birth weight. Babies born to women who smoke are on average 200 grams (8 oz) lighter than babies born to comparable non-smoking mothers. Premature and low birth weight babies are more prone to illness and infections.
Congenital defects in the baby - such as cleft palate.
Stillbirth or death within the first week of life - the risk is increased by about one-third.
Poorer long-term growth, development, and health of the child. On average, compared to children born to non-smokers, children born to smokers are smaller, have lower achievements in reading and maths, and have an increased risk of developing asthma.

I like you muddle78

The thing that has increased massively in the last couple of decades is car ownership and use... every summer loads of people die in London due to pollution... could this be something to do with increasing respiratory problems? Pregnant women and children being exposed to toxic fumes on a daily basis? Of course not, that idea threatens the lifestyle of the masses so it is craftily overlooked...

alypaly what study is that from? Or is it like the majority of 'modern' studies that draw off the one source that actually properly looked into it...Hitler's concentration camps, not exactly the place to get healthy, well nourished mothers/foetus! Oh and btw Hitler was the head of the first regime to ban smoking (prior to the studies) so hardly unbiased.

Also you arguement about educational performance could just as easily have it's roots in socio-economic demographics.

BTW its not my arguement..it is from a clinical paper..please see document references..just copied and pasted
www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Hypertension-in-Pregnancy.htm

nothing will change my mind anyway as i am very anti smoking in every aspect. but thats my own personal view and people ca do what they want. Its a free world!!
My BF smokes, but not in my home..NEVER...and i just hate the smell of his breath afetr he has had one, and his clothes.

geez thanks lovelytinofspam !!!

Alypaly, you have not understood and instead have just quoted statistics someone else got and interpreted for you from reading studies lol! re smoking and hypertension here is a link to an abstract (condensed info about a study) of a study i could be bothered to dig out of my browsing history. hopefully you will understand better what i am talking about.www.data-yard.net/2/14/ajog2.htm