to be so annoyed at seeing pregnant women smoking.....

[CakeandFineWine]

GGGRRRHH.

Following my miscarriage 2 weeks ago. granted I'm a little raw...

But god it annoys me when I quit smoking before I even starting TTC, I didn't drink a drop, took my folic acid and followed the do's and don'ts of foods to the T.
And still MC'ed
And I see pregnant ladies walking around smoking or drinking in pubs..........

ITS SO UNJUST!!!!!!!

It also annoys me when they go on and on about their child when they get asthma at 6 months and wonder why

sorry meant to say I'm sorry for your recent miscarraige, I've had one myself so know exactly how you are feeling. Take care of yourself and give yourself time to grieve

YANBU i smoke because i have no will power and am open to judgement for the simple fact i judge myself and know what im doing to my unborn baby

I understand exactly where the OP is coming from.

We ended up having to have fertility treatment and the department was located beside the maternity unit. We had to run the gauntlet of countless heavily pregnant women smoking outside (in their dressing gowns and slippers fgs!) each time we had to go for an appointment.

No, I probably shouldn't judge, but it doesn't stop it from being extremely annoying.

oh and i think you have every right to be very angry at me and every other pregnant women who smokes
its painfuly unjust

Better a child born with difficulties caused by it's mother than not at all????
Is that actually an argument?

Perhaps we, who have chosen to have children, give them the best start we can give them which doesn't include getting pissed and smoking cigarettes. The idea is when you carry a baby you do it with the best intentions, if you can't give up cigarettes for that then perhaps you should seriously consider whether you are in the right time and place to have children.

Of course people judge pg smokers, the same as people frown at fat children and children drinking coke on their way to primary school.

A friend of mine seems to think its okay to smoke in the house with her newborn, who was born with breathing difficulties and was on a respirator for 4 days!! She BFs him whilst smoking.

I gave up smoking when I found out I was PG, and while i know it is hard for others and I know it is wrong to judge them on it, it does annoy me.

OP - sorry about your MC

skihorse and LTOS, you took the words right out of my mouth [albeit put in a much more subtle manner than I would have!].

@Hecate and ors, in doing nothing that you know poses a risk to your baby, dare I say that includes the following:

1. Stepping outside of your room
2. Stepping outside of your house
3. Breathing
4. Driving
5. Flying
6. Walking next to a total stranger who may or may not carry an illness/disease that poses a risk to you and/or your baby
7. Eating any food item
8. Smoking
9. Drinking water

10. Drinking alcohol 11. Standing next to a car 12. Taking public transport 13. Walking 14. Running 15. Having other children in the same house 16. Having your partner in the same house 17. Shopping 18. Using your laptop (the number of germs on the average computer keyboard can exceed that of those found on toilet seats and in toilets) 19. Using the toilet 20. Preparing food 21. Having a dog 22. Having a cat 23. Having any kind of pet 24. Taking over-the-counter legal drugs (paracetamol, aspirin, ibuprofen etc) 25. Taking prescription-only legal drugs 26. Taking illegal drugs 27. Engaging in any kind of sporting activity 28. Engaging in sexual activity

I could go on and on and on. Some of the above carry an increased risk to an unborn child, but they ALL pose risks. A woman may take illegal drugs throughout her pregnancy and may have a perfectly healthy baby. A woman could get into her car and be involved in an accident at the end of her street and lose hers. The former is seen to carry more weight as a risk for the simple reason that it is seen to be within the mothers control. Then again, so was the latter i.e. she made an active choice to get in a car knowing that car accidents can happen anytime and anywhere. However, so can the latter. So my question is what activities can a woman indulge and/or not indulge in the moment she finds out that she is pregnant? Those that are deemed socially acceptable? Then again, some would argue that a woman should not take medication of ANY kind whilst pregnant. Is that acceptable?

I would never say that smoking during one's pregnancy is the "right" thing to do. However, I did not smoke during my first pregnancy and went on to miscarry. I smoked during my second pregnancy, carried to full-term and my DS has [so far] turned out healthy. There is no proven link that a child of a woman who smokes during pregnancy will go on to have respiratory issues - it is simply that there may be a link or an increased risk. So too could the child of a woman who never smoked during her pregnancy. My mother smoked through all five of her pregnancies. Not one of us have had respiratory issues, nor were we of a low birth weight. Her younger sister (my aunt) has never toughed a cigarette but has a son with terrible asthma.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that one can have views on what a woman should and should not do when pregnant. However, it is not as simplistic as simply saying that a woman should do nothing/not be allowed to do anything that she knows poses a risk to her baby. Plus, as LTOS has inferred, how would/should such limitations be enforced (if at all)?

posieparker, if you are quoting me, then no, it's not an argument at all.

Moral arguments have no place in law but they do come into most people's decisions. Is it immoral to smoke when pg? Perhaps.

TBH it wasn't the damage that would be caused, alone, that stopped me doing stupid things when pg but also knowing how awful I'd feel if I had myself to blame. Smoking around a newborn is the same as smoking when pg as far as I'm concerned. Reducing risks is not the same as ceasing to live a normal life.

If the thought of a tiny baby inhaling toxins is not enough to put you off smoking then god knows what would.

would should be could.

Asana, I think you are looking at things rather simplistically.

Although at the moment you are seeing a perfectly healthy child you don't know what the long-term effect is.

I know a few adults whose parents smoked during pregnancy (including DH and his brother) and most of them seem to have developed high blood pressure at an abnormally early age (the youngest being 25). The effects of smoking are never insignificant and can't be compared to leaving the house or having a drink during pregnay.

The point is with smoking it is fine to take the risk if it is just you that has to deal with the consequences and side effects. You are the one that is inhaling the smoke and I think that is fine.

However, to burden your child with the potential consequences of your behaviour seems selfish. Particularly as it is really only for a 9 month period.

Call me what you want - I am completely against smoking during pregnancy.

Ali We all know smoking is bad. Our point is that once you dictate what a woman can and cannot do with her own body then you take away all the rights that women have fought for and propel us back to the middle-ages.

What is it they say? "The road to ruin is paved with good intentions."

wow, what a response, I never expected that!

Nearly all of the women on here who have admitted to smoking while pg seem to be somewhat ashamed.
I guess my thinking is if you really can't quit then surely people would be somewhat embarrassed so therefore be more subtle/secretive about it.........

I can't help but be judgemental when I hear some things people do when pg, if you didn't know then thats one thing, my mw told me a festival this yr was a bad idea due to swine flu, I cancelled and lost nearly £200, But I was pg and had another life to think about, surely that takes priority.
Yes there are risks that are out of your control and no it might not stop you having a MC or child with difficulties but why run any obvious risk???

Would the contributers to this thread be just as angry at a mother who was obese as one who smoked?

yes to some degree,
thats more circumstancial though, weight loss during pg isn't ideal, it is before though if planned and I know quite a few women who have lost weight before trying to conceive....

I do hope all of you who are whining about the 'selfishness' of pregnant women daring to think that they are fully autonymous human beings with the right to do WHAT THEY LIKE are all busy fundraising and campaigning for extra funding for maternity care. You;re not? Don't you CARE about all those babies (and women) whose health is at risk from underfunded inadequate maternity care? Understaffing, lack of intensive care beds for premmies or other troubled births, dirty overcrowded wards, etc etc -but oh no, far easier to blame everything on pregnant women and lock them all up for their own good.

CakeandFineWine - I had to walk into the hostpital (for a scan after a huge amount of blood and clot loss - I thought I'd lost the baby), past pregnant women smoking.

It's only just occured to my that they are at the hostpital because there is a problem with their pregnancy because of their unhealthy lifestyle.

My point being fat mothers pose more of a risk to their child than smokers but you never hear people ranting and raving about fatties. When midwifes do their risk assessment smoking earns you a minus 2 while being above 35bmi (which incidentally isnt that fat probably a size 14-16) earns you a minus 10.

It was only a decade or two ago when it was totally normal to see a smoking mother. My mother smoked while pg. I have no health probs and nor do my siblings

VS - but we know know the risks and that's the difference

I think that smoking is focussed on as it has become so unacceptable generally in our society. Smokers are marginalised everywhere now, and people who do smoke feel horribly guilty (mostly) not least when pg or when they have children. So pg smokers are an obvious, easy, visible and natural target.

There are other risks which people take which do not get scrutinised in the same way as they are socially acceptable activities/normal everyday things.

Personally I feel sorry for the plight of smokers and really wish the govt would just ban it completely for everyone. Or let people smoke freely and shut up about it. The fact that they make life miserable for smokers, full of cold doorways and guilt, while secretly they like people to smoke as it brings them piles of revenue, sickens me somewhat.

It is like a very poor practical joke.

victoriascrumptious - Its' possible to stop smoking immediately the moment you find out you're pregnant (I did) It's not possible to lose 10st over night.

victoria - I do feel annoyed and upset at someone who refuses to or doesn't manage successfully to eat healthily during pregnancy to the extent that it puts the pregnancy at risk - over or underweight. It makes me angry when people diet or smoke to 'get a small baby'. Weight is a slightly different issue though, in that the body often has self-protective mechanisms in this situation and often stops a women from being able to conceive if she is vastly over or under weight.

That said, that fact that it annoys and angers me personally is a bit irrelevant as I can't control other people's behaviour. I can't really help that it annoys, angers and upsets me and I think it is not really anybody else's problem but mine.

I also think that all women need support during pregnancy, smokers, drinkers, addicts, the over and under weight all need compassion and support to help them give their babies the best start in life. If I can I will attempt to provide support and compassion for women struggling with these issues in pregnancy because it upsets/annoys/angers me.

YANBU. Smoking in pregnancy is the one thing I am judgey on, and I can't stand listening to people's bullshit justifications as to why they don't stop (number one being, "I'd be so stressed, it would be worse for the baby than the cigarettes") and I'm speaking as an ex-smoker, 20-40 a day, who loved smoking and never even attempted to quit once, until pregnancy.

being above 35 bmi would not be a size 14-16 unless you were under 5ft and terribly small boned! I am a size 12-14 at a bmi of 22 because I am 5ft 7 and have wide hips and shoulders.