that going on a night out 4 days after giving birth is a bit OTT?

[mears]

Wearing mini skirt and thigh boots and baby over an hour away at granny's overnight?

Would you?

"To judge women for acting 'unnaturally' or against 'instinct' is a rather dangerous path for me.
What may feel instinctive and 'right' to one mother may not to another for all sorts of reasons: personailty, experience, social context to name 3 very broad ones."

But do you not agree that it's almost universal for mothers not to want to be separated from their newborns, and for this to be increasingly acknowledged in the way mothers and babies are treated within maternity services?

mears - don't sweat it. I think this has been a very good thread and I've enjoyed reading it.

You are also a huge asset to mumsnet - I've really enjoyed (and learned loads!) from reading your posts.

"agree that it's almost universal for mothers"

the keyword being almost.

Kind of in awe - I had no complications but was definitely wearing PJs and 'soft' elasticated clothing for 9 days then had to go to a family reunion when DS was 10 days old.
I found it exhausting and fell asleep early in the evening.
It was quite tiring enough dealing with visitors at home.
How would you get the energy, and be brave enough to leave the baby?
Maybe it was to prove to her friends that she wasn't going to change completely, and maybe she didn't look that great, but I wonder if she was trying to prove something!?

I was back doing the school run less than 48 hours after having dc9. Sometimes it's possible. Perhaps that's how she felt. I couldn't have left dc for 24hours, or a lot less for a night out, but that's me.

Sorry - should have been less than 72 hours.

sabire when it comes to humans,there are many complex intellectual and psychosocial variables. one shouldn't assume universality or norms

if it were a sequential process of majority would do X or Y then humans and their complex interactions and decision making wouldn't be so damn interesting

class
age
educational background
peer and family norms
previous experience

all influence and shape our individuality

this woman is expressing her individuality

I agree that generally mothers do not want to be parted from young babies and that to leave a 4 day baby for a night out is unusula behaviour.

I think I've said that in every post.

What I can't say is that this unusual behaviour will have a negative impact on the baby or that it indicates soemthing wrong with this mother.

Ok so she is expressing her individuality. But imo it is very individual to her.

I don't believe that society has the right to dictate patterns of behaviour to women (motherhood=confinement to the home and hearth) and we are all entitled to make our own choices however, to me it is an odd choice to make.

I would pull a face about any parent who chose to leave their 4 day old newborn overnight to go out clubbing.

Her baby, her choice, yes it doesn't make sense to a lot of people but then again not everyone parents the same.

I know someone who left her 5 week old baby to go on a weekend bender, took cocaine but it was ok as she pumped and threw away her milk the next day

I still would not leave DD3 overnight with anyone and she is 13 months just wouldn't do it, also depends on how much you trust the caregiver, theres no one apart from DP I trust with the DDs.

I technically could have gone clubbing after DD2 was born, was back in size 10 jeans the day after (although I have never had legs for a mini skirt), 4 hours after she was born I put on a washing, DP did stop me hoovering though.

Bet she's really really young. Or some kind of uberfit health merchant

I'm thinking back to the first week with each of my three. I came across some photos of me with dd1 a while back. In every single photo I've got both arms wrapped around her and am holding her very very close. I would get panicky when I shut my eyes because I couldn't see her. I slept with one hand on her all the time and had her next to me.

lol sabire, I empathise with that all consuming maternal instinct!

I never anticipated those feelings. I found it quite bizarre.

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, sabire.

That sounds lovely, I'm sure many, even most of us were the same, but some mothesr are differnt. Not worse necesarily, just different.

We all experince motherhood in a different ways and make different choices. Of course we find others choices hard to undesratnd when ours seem so rigt to us, but we need to try hard not to make motherhood prescriptve and constarining and dogmatic.

We make different choices when it comes to lifestyles, but we are all governed by largely the same instinctive and hormonally driven impulses when it comes to reproductive behaviours - and childbirth, breastfeeding and the immediate postnatal period come under that umbrella.

It's just silly to keep insisting that instinct and biology play no part, or an insignificant part, in the relationship between a mother and her newborn baby.

Instinct does play a part.

Part of a much wider more complex psychosocial context for humans, as has been explined and pointed out already by many others on the thread.

It's quite silly to insist that your own experience is universal.

I was perfectly happy to nip out for a few hours & leave my week old baby in safe hands.

Your experience is yours, & that's fine, but you shouldn't think that gives you an entitlement to prescribe to anyone else.

"Part of a much wider more complex psychosocial context for humans, as has been explined and pointed out already by many others on the thread"

But you are suggesting then that this powerful instinct is routinely sublimated by other drives. I don't agree. You can see from the overwhelming number of posts on this board that the vast majority of women don't want to be separated from their babies in the first few days after birth.

My point stands - this mother either lacked the instinct to keep her baby close, or repressed this instinct for some other reason.

And I wasn't 'prescribing' - only pointing out some anomolies in this mothers behaviour.

hey Mears is it possible the world is so small and we know the same people.........

By any chance has this person also gone back to work for an odd day.......

Not that im judging at all just thought it strange we may know the same person!

24 hours apart at 4 days old is 25% of the baby's life.

She doesn't work iateallthecreameggsyummy - she doesn't need to.

Doubt it is the same person.

Sabire: 'maternal instinct' to the extent of never wanting to do anything but service your baby (and, of course, your husband) is a misogynist myth, and this big deal about 'bonding' is similar nonsense that can cause unnecessary stress to women. In the days before contraception, infanticide was common and it still is in famine-stricken or very poor areas. Culturally-encouraged cruelty to children was not at all uncommon in the past. So all these sloppy luvverly posts about not being able to leave one's newborn ever are simply personal experiences, not universal truths.
Babies need food, warmth and affectionate touch in order to thrive, but that affectionate touch doesn't have to come from the mother 24/7 and in fact it's good for babies to form relationships with more than one caregiver early on anyway (ie their fathers as well as grandparents and perhaps close friends, depending on who is nearby and available).
I would imagine this young woman was making a stand: that her own life was still important, and good for her. There is more to a woman's life than breeding and childrearing.

The big deal about bonding is nonsense !! Are you serious ??

Fair play to the girl. I still felt like I was sitting on an oversized marshmallow cushion after 4 days

Yup. People talk about it as though it's some mystical outside force that has to affect new mothers, thus scaring those who feel pleased to have come through the birth alive, or moderately happy but not deliriously so, etc by implying that the babies will be irrevocably damaged. This is nonsense. Babies who are treated with kindness and affection and whose physical needs are met will be fine whether the mother has some sort of 'mystic experience' or not.