that going on a night out 4 days after giving birth is a bit OTT?

[mears]

Wearing mini skirt and thigh boots and baby over an hour away at granny's overnight?

Would you?

"the only mammals who fail at breastfeeding en masse. "

I have 2 problems with this.
Do humans fail at bfing en masse? or does a large portion of mothers choose not to bf because they have the choice?

Are humans the only mammal that fails at bfing?
Wet nurse for primates?
Not en masse but again not unheard of and most mammals don't have a choice where their offspring are likely to survive.

"fail at breastfeeding en masse" is emotive and a tangential unrelated point

I think people who do this tend to be making A POINT.

To which I always think YAWN, get over yourself.

oh yes god forbid womwn strive to make points. they will want the vote next,all that point making

"Do humans fail at bfing en masse? or does a large portion of mothers choose not to bf because they have the choice?
Women fail at breastfeeding en masse "

• at least in most Western countries. 75% of UK mums initiate breastfeeding in the UK. Over half have stopped by the end of the second week, citing 'sore nipples' and 'breast rejection' as the most common reasons for stopping. Two weeks later over half the remainder have also stopped completely. The majority of these mums cite 'insufficient milk' as their reason for stopping. 90% of mums who stop breastfeeding in the first few weeks say they would have like to continue for longer.

Scottishmummy - if it's intinctive behaviour to want to keep your newborn baby close to you (I think the evidence for this is pretty strong), then the mother who leaves her 4 day old baby to go out drinking is either lacking in normal instincts towards her child, or is ignoring or defying those instincts for some reason known only to her. Either way I can't see it as a good thing for her or her baby.

www.archi.net.au/e-library/service/children/childrens_resources/stick-together

www.archi.net.au/e-library/service/children/childrens_resources/stick-together

it is wild speculation to assert a night out is detrimental to baby or mum. what is the evidence for this

more like projecting your values and beliefs onto someone else

It's a deviation from normal instinctive behaviour.

Where is the evidence that it is harmless?

Sabire "majority of these mums cite 'insufficient milk' as their reason for stopping."
I have friends and relatives who have given that as their reason in the early days who have later told me that the real reason was they didn't want to bf as it was too painful or they just realised they didn't really want to.

Snapple perhaps this mum wasn't bfing anyway.

Sabire You agreed that one night out is unlikely to affect parenting.

"I don't think that an overnight stay will disrupt parenting."

By sabire on Sun 23-Aug-09 22:28:05
I don't think that an overnight stay will disrupt parenting.

In answer to OP, nope i wouldnt. I couldnt have and even if i could of I wouldnt of... Neither would i go on holiday water ski-ing like another mumsnetter apparantly did a few years back

Yes - probably lots of women don't tell the truth about why they are stopping breastfeeding.

But to me the fact that so many women have such an emotional and physical struggle with something which is really nothing more than a normal biological function suggests to me that there's something seriously dysfunctional going on when it comes to the modern mothering experience (that and the colossally high rates of PND which you get in the West).

It's certainly unusual and rather extreme behaviour, but there as many different ways to mother as there are women.

We all make our own choices an our own mistakes.

To judge women for acting 'unnaturally' or against 'instinct' is a rather dangerous path for me.
What may feel instinctive and 'right' to one mother may not to another for all sorts of reasons: personailty, experience, social context to name 3 very broad ones.

barring abusive behaviour we need to allow women the choice to mother in the way that suits them and steer clear of setting high standards all must meet or be judged wanting.

that's dangerous for all women.

I went out 'clubbing' (ie. mates' band were playing in a club) when dd1 was a week old, leaving her (& a big bottle of expressed milk) & ds with MIL.

We arrived about 8pm, left about midnight - just after the band we'd gone to see - I was knackered & my boobs were leaking to a degree that was just too uncomfortable to stay out later.

It seemed, & still seems, like a perfectly sensible thing to do.

Dd1 hadn't actually woken the whole time we were gone, but if she had, I really don't think she'd've been any more traumatised than ds was at a similar age when dh fed him a bottle of ebm because I was asleep - ie: not at all.

& we could've been home in 30 minutes, max, if we needed to be.

We're all different. I found pregnancy absolutely ghastly, but the first few weeks of motherhood a doddle - babies who tok instantly to bf & were also happy with ebm whilst I bounced back & was ready for a night out more or less straightaway.

Wouldn't've gone for a mini & thigh boots, but frankly, bloody good luck to any new mother who would!

Am just back from an evening at the cinema with my DD.

scottishmummy is quite right that I should get what I deserve in responses for starting such a horrible thread. It wasn't meant to be that way.

I do think that scottishmummy's response has been extreme but on reflection I do realise that I promted such a response by my opening post.

I should have started a serious thread to guage mumsnetters opinions.

I personally could not have left a newborn of 4 days old, for almost 24 hours with my mother who lives over an hours drive away. I did say in initial post 'overnight with granny'. Never mind the going out for the night. 2 separate issues but I merged them into one.

Yes it is none of my business, but we discuss all sorts of issues on musnet. That has been my experience over the last 7 years.

I am useless at AIBU threads obviously (did not treally take them seriously) so will steer well clear in the future - really did not expect to generate such negative reponses.

Totally agree, MrsKing

"I don't think that an overnight stay will disrupt parenting".

But it's not about being out for one night.

That's not really the issue.

It's about the absence of any instinct in this mum to stay close to her baby, and whether that signifies anything.

mears, you really have done nothing wrong IMO. I have learnt the hard way that it is a very dangerous thing to start an aibu thread.

Hope to see you around anyway.

I think you might be looking for things that don't actually exist, Sabire.

application of rigid its wrong is worrying as is denouncing a mum for denying nature. imagine the social control this potentially exerts the "good mum" expectation

if she made adequate safety provision with a responsible adult
if it was informed choice

then that is her choice

just remember bowlby said we didn't need to be perfect or strive for unattainanable. Just good enough mum

sabire now you are taking a preposterous leap and presuming this is indicative of more harm

that is wholly your subjective opinion,you have no evidence base for that.

whatsoever

Mears - I think this has been a really good thread. It has got a lot of people thinking (which is never a bad thing imo).

And I very much doubt anybody thinks you are a 'bad' person Well I don't anyway fwiw

'whether that signifies anything' it may and it may not Sabire. IT is rather extreme and unusual behaviour, but we'd need alot more information and to give this mother alot more time to really judge that.