To think that health professionals should not call me MUM

[Reallytired]

DD had her jabs today and the nurse kept on calling me "Mum" even though I said to her that I did not want her to call me "Mum". I told her that it was a biological impossiblity that I was her mother.

I have two children and I am happy for me to call me Mum, but I do have a proper name and I think health professionals should use it.

I thought you would deny the rudeness of some of your posts. No surprise there! Its amazing that some other posters (who don't have a hidden agenda or work for the NHS) have joined with view that oppose yours! SM for one can clearly see the bullying on here and has the guts to express it which I expect other posters may be anxious to do in case they get their heads bitten off.
As to the second post after reading, it just shows how naive and clueless you are about this. Do you really think that a thread on mumsnet is going to change the whole NHS (which, I think is the biggest employer in the country, though don't quote me on this)? Do you seriously imagine that 5 or 10 HCPs on mumsnet speaking to their immediate colleagues will produce such a large change? Of course you need managers in every trust to produce documents like this, disseminate them and audit progress. This is the only way to actually (attempt) to reach all the staff. Yes, manners in themselves are free (and are also important) but changing this habit and culture in the whole NHS is definitely will not be easy and will take time and money.

??? but i don't think there are that many smileys for a thread of this size.

campion I am sorry about your brother. Good for your mum though!

riven sorry to have given you a sleepless night. I gave up work when DD was dx'd so that would have been 5 years ago. I wish I could say it was a one off but it wasnt. It was not confined to HCPs either. But I will say that there were a good many HCPs that were informed, creative and willing to support disabled parents.

I worked with social workers who believed a child of disabled parents was a child at risk, key workers who believed the only possible outcome of a pregnancy [of a disabled woman] was a termination, senior case managers who requested that the Sign Language Interpreter at a meeting 'stop distracting me with all that waving about', speech therapists who have called in a panic because a child of Deaf parents 'might start speaking with that deaf and dumb accent'. The most difficult hurdle was to get people to understand I worked with disabled PARENTS. Over and over again that description would be interpreted as parents with disabled children.

Despite that and despite assumptions made by some posters I do not despise HCPs (or social workers for that matter). I work in the field and am very aware that the majority want to do the very best by their service users.

The sneering attitude towards anecdotal evidence is hugely frustrating. The NHS is about the human experience. The only way of presenting the real human experience is by recounting stories. No amount of quantative and qualitative evidence, peer reviewed and published can present that.

If we were talking about the affects of a drug on weight gain I would obviously prefer the scientific sort, but we are not. I stand by my anecdotal evidence because it is the telling of a truth. The truth is that 'trivalities' like a form of address make a difference.

And I wish posters would at least attempt to get a proper gist of other's concerns before they dismiss them as silly. It is insulting considering the experiences of many posters.

Oh and another thing - just dont get the anti atich stuff going on. I cannot see why she is in line for such vitriol. She may have strong opinions but I do not think she is rude or bullying. Particularly considering the language and attitudes on many MNs threads

I've never called any NHS employee oi or bitch or cow, but I'm not sure what it's got to do with people who aren't drunk and abusive on Saturday night (or any other night) being called something the BMA recognises as extremely disrespectful.

oh GOD. rofl. sm and i have a wee 'thing' going, loobs. don't get between us. i hardly think she's your best champion on here.

and i didn't deny anything. i just didn't allow you do exaggerate it.

re the NHS. make up your mind, if you think that communication is a big issue facing the NHS but also consider attempts to deal with it a 'SHOCKING waste of money', then all you can do is try to change the culture around you and hope that it pays forward. really you are presenting another argument here for the status quo.

this thread has been so high octane and value laden with high expressed emotion it really did deserve the ott faces.

as it positively reeks of hold dem glistening torches high,lets get dem hcp's,make a pyre,the foul mouth bastards called some one mum

I think the targeting of Aitch that is going on is because she is tenacious about this issue and that is annoying people who are feeling a bit defensive about it but know she's right.

I think the main obstacle to changing "the way things are done" in any organisation, is not money, it's mindset. You can throw as much money as you like at somethng, but if the mindset doesn't change, you are wasting your money.

I don't believe that it needs to take millions of pounds to impose good manners on NHS staff. I don't believe that they are all idiots who need some kind of special training to make them treat their stakeholders with basic good manners, they are in the main sensible people who want to do the best in their job, just like any other group of workers. It is much more about whether they and their managers see this sort of thing as important and worthy of notice and attention and are prepared to change, rather than trivial and silly and not worth bothering about.

oh that is terrible, chegirl, particularly that people couldn't grasp that you were working with disabled parents. but if i'm completely honest, i bet if i heard someone talking about disabled parents and didn't have my brain switched on, i woudl very likely do the same. certainly since posting on MN, even though i don't post in SN, i think i've become a huge amount more aware of those casual assumptions and kinda shocked myself with them.

aitch has name called and cut and paste her way through the thread,she is certainly not the wronged individual here

she gave

she got

and this portrayal of the heroic issue raiser trampled on by benign forces of hcp is risible

no sorry this cantankerous wee thread has had aitch at the epicentre

I disagree that it reeks of pitchforking and burn them HCP's.

On the contrary, on several occasions it has been acknowledged that HCP's are doing their best and that it is the culture they are working in which is the problem, not the individuals themselves on the whole.

But do feel free to rant about the hysteria that isn't there SM, it obviously entertains you...

well if you think i'm going to sleep with you after that, sm, you've got another think coming.

Scottishmummy I heart you lovey.

LOL I noticed her cut and pasting when she was clarifying a post or setting the misrepresented record straight SM.

Which isn't unreasonable I think.

JBAY so do you think I am insane?

Plus3 ? thanks for raising the issue.

Looby - Good luck with discussing this topic with your colleagues.

You say that "calling people by the preferred title, however, is NOT a top priority in the NHS".... but do you agree that it is really quite a simple thing to do, that it should not really cost anything?

The links I posted were for discussion. I didn?t post them with a prescription that had to be followed to the letter. Use what works, drop what doesn?t ? write your own practice note ? the first link was only a page of content?

I just thought that those HCP?s who have indicated that they were busy might want to look a quick short document that is already in circulation.

I never said that the NHS documents posted were VERY IMPORTANT.

I agree that yes you can read the document and deduce that it is from one NHS trust and other NHS trusts produce other documents. I also added that the second link on patient identification errors may have been off tangent.

The one page communication document had a central statement of intent:

"Adult patients are addressed initially in all areas by theIr full name and then subsequently by name of their choice in order to maintain dignity and self respect."

I'm interested in how a document with this statement makes you sad and cross.

I am interested in your assumptions about the contact person on the first link, in your opinion the Patient and Involvement Manager probably gets paid a fairly generous salary? And the proof or relevance of this is? Is it that somehow that person is wasting tax payer money?
Does it really matter to you - who writes or is contact person for the document ? Are you taking offence at this job title or the persons role - or the content?

As mentioned the second link was an nhs link to patient identification errors, I posted that to reinforce the consequences of not getting identity right as a previous poster had mentioned note taking with out proper names, i.e. dad and mum's contact numbers.

I presume they often do carry out surveys in the NHS anyway ? so adding in 2 more questions, might not actually break the bank and if it did well you could drop the survey element!confirming if:

1. patients were asked for their preferred choice of names
2. patients are happy with the way they have been addressed.

I'm digressing but the elderspeak research shows the health impacts of how you address people.

nice cut and paste.really adds to the thread

scottishmummy enjoy my cut and pasting

what's wrong with cutting and pasting, sm? this is new to me. snapple was just bringing up a point made previously in a reasonably fast-moving thread, what is wrong with that? i genuinely don't understand.

HerBeatitude....I agree...it doesn't take money...it takes good management...I was a nurse in Germany, and whilst a lot of the time we were humerous and that was fine...also, attitude at times stunk...nurses being very disrespectful to vulnurable people, and that was looked away from by the management...people would get a mild reprimanding, but that was it...
fast forward, worked in a small hospital in wales, as an AN, rather than a nurse, and the managers were brilliant....yes, we were also having a love with the patient, but, in general everyone was respectful and if not, it would be picked up on...and it would have been a sacking ground, if you were rude and out of order...

Now, I think, to many managers are the death of the NHS as they cost to much, and more on-hand staff is needed...but the managers that are there should be very fair and regulating of what is acceptable...

but I stick with my earlier post, that in it self with staff like those that vaccinate your child, and that you may have no other dealings, there is no problem with being called mum...but in long term care etc...that is when it needs to be addressed, as that is a totally different issue....

maybe training of nurses needs to be a bit dfferent....but than, they have so much to learn in only 3 years....I am now doing a degree in OT, and by god...my nursing qualifications were not called a degree, but were much more full on and much more learning intensive...but maybe nursing should be more about doing wiht the patient, them helping themselfs and nurses enabling this, in the long run that gives more time...that was the thing I had to learn on my first placement....to let people get on wiht it and only to offer help if it looked like they wanted and needed it...i.e. to sometimes sit on my hands...my nursing nature was ready to take over and just offer help...cos it is so much faster...and when nursing time does seem to be of the essence....

aitch, as usual you have misrepresented or misinterpreted what I have said. When I referred to 'a shocking waste of money', I was referring to that one specific document and the amount of money that has been spent to produce it. I actually said that communication with patients in general (not just this 'mum' issue) was very important. Please read the post! Indeed, I will make up my mind and you will make up yours.
Snapple, thx for your response. I am taking offense at the huge number of managers in the NHS as I think they are draining away NHS resources and outnumber clinical staff. I was only using the manager on that document as an example to be extrapolated. I do take offense to the content of the report as I think there are far more important things to spend taxpayers money on.
HD, who are you to say what other posters think when you refer to 'people being defensive because they know that aitch is right'? Just because you happen to agree with her, it does not necessarily follow that she is right.
Some of you say that this change should be easy, that manners are free, etc but no one has actually suggested how it should take place.
chegirl- no one has sneered at your anecdotal evidence or anyone else's. I am sorry that you feel sneered at.

here is wot i wrote.

"re the NHS. make up your mind, if you think that communication is a big issue facing the NHS but also consider attempts to deal with it a 'SHOCKING waste of money', then all you can do is try to change the culture around you and hope that it pays forward. really you are presenting another argument here for the status quo."

what is it you actually disagree with here?

you think that communication is a big issue, yes? (not just the mum thing, i didn't specify that as you can see, so who's misrepresenting who here?)

and you think that the document, which attempts to deal with the issue of communication is a shocking waste of money, yes?

so all you can do is make small changes at your level and hope to pay it forward? this is a suggestion as to how a change can take place, isn't it?

i'm absolutely baffled by this. we're both writing in the same language, aren't we? how can you be so wilfully obtuse about this? [amazed]

Am having a read and will be back

But looby, you have said that you agree with us.

Except for the unusual woman whose name escapes me who thought we were all small minded and very foolish, most of the HCPs have said they don't think it's a good thing and some have said that this thread has made them think about it. I don't think it's a huge misreprsentation to say that most of the HCP's know Aitch is right - they may not like the arguments, they may not like her way of expressing it, they may squirm and get defensive, but at base nobody except Wotsername is saying that it is OK to call people something they don't want to be called.

Right

My experience of hospitals and young children is that the medics chose to pitch their language very very low, assuming zero knowledge, hence the paed telling me that they had found a bug in my newborn's ear for eg.

Obv they meant that having swabbed him in SCBU they found a source of the infection that he had contracted, but I was at first aghast at the notion that the Unit had some kind of infestation.

Very cross about that even now.

As you were.

LOL at bug.

I used to get those in my computer.

Wow Wow Wow have there not been many suggestions as to how change could take place?

Raise it at a mtg.

Complain if it happens to you.

Do something about it if you hear it happening to someone else.

Discuss it across teams and disciplines.

Have a look at the research out there.

Consider diversity training.

Real case examples have been illustrated - I would find it very difficult to ever forget the posts and critical incidents that chergirl and campion took the time to post.

If HCP's simply ensured adult patients, or those adults accompanying children, are addressed initially in all areas by their full name and then subsequently by name of their choice in order to maintain dignity and self respect then that would do the trick.