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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that health professionals should not call me MUM

843 replies

Reallytired · 21/08/2009 19:34

DD had her jabs today and the nurse kept on calling me "Mum" even though I said to her that I did not want her to call me "Mum". I told her that it was a biological impossiblity that I was her mother.

I have two children and I am happy for me to call me Mum, but I do have a proper name and I think health professionals should use it.

OP posts:
campion · 25/08/2009 16:41

Just reading your post, chegirl, has brought something back that my mum told me. My twin brother developed Leukaemia before he was 2 in the days when there was no hope of a cure, just drug treatment.He had to go for regular blood tests etc and, understandably, didn't like it. One day a young woman doctor was having trouble finding a vein and my brother was getting distressed. My mum was obviously trying to soothe him whilst the woman attempted some sort of target practice on him so my mum asked her to stop. The doctor turned to assembled colleagues and said 'It's always more difficult when Mum makes a fuss', in a patronising tone.

At that, my mum said to my brother ' Come on darlng, let's put your coat on. We're going home' and walked out. She was aware of a few dropped jaws as she left - this was in the days when doctors were gods ( ha ha).This is still a vivid memory for her though she also says most people were very kind and supportive.

I totally agree about ' mum'. You use it for your own mother - period. It's not just an NHS device either - I hear it all the time in schools too, and I've decided to make a stand come the new term!

jybay · 25/08/2009 17:07

I have now had the chance to read the whole thread. It was illuminating to see how many early posters said that they did not mind being called "Mum" or even liked it. Anyone who expressed this view was hectored by the same 2-3 posters and in some cases called thick with illusions to "fuckwittage". No wonder they are no longer posting.

So - who is into power play now? What about the the bullying and hectoring tone of some of the "anti-Mum" posters? Can't you accept that some people on this thread - the great majority not HCPs (as far as we know) - disagree with you? Apparently not, anyone who dissents from your view is shouted down.

As for HCPs, as far as I can gather, in the 700 posts, only one HCP has not condemned calling people "Mum" and even she did not actually defend the practice, just said that she didn't see it as a big deal. Despite the HCPs' support for the OP, we have been accused of god knows what.

And I still have no idea why people are posting links for me about how to identify and address patients. How can I put this any more plainly? I DON'T AGREE WITH CALLING PEOPLE "MUM". I have said so from my first post but it seems some people are too eager to slag off HCPs to notice we actually agree with you. Musn't let facts get in the way of a good prejudice, I suppose. It is ironic to see the anti-HCP gang displaying all the traits that they accuse HCPs of having: intransience, arrogance and a refusal to accept the opinions of others.

No wonder all the vaguely sane posters have now departed this thread. I'm off to join them.

jybay · 25/08/2009 17:11

PS Apologies though Aitch, I did genuinely misunderstand what you meant about not being a Mum. Having come in late in the thread, I thought you meant that you were a step-mum. It was a genuine misunderstanding and not an attempt to wind you up.

I still don't understand your repeated comments that you "don't want to be called anything" though. How are HCPs supposed to function if we can't call parents "Mum", but also can't ask their name? Could you explain these comments?:

"just don't call us anything at all."

"look, there's no need to call parents ANYTHING, so why are they doing it? poooooowweeeeeer graaaaaaab. "

"but why did they call you anything, mariemarie?"

"I really don't want to be called ANYTHING, why's that so hard to grasp?"

"bollocks to me having to tell people how i wish to be addressed."

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 25/08/2009 17:23

i've just read the thread again. what an extraordinary misrepresentation of the facts, jybay. here are the first lot of posters' opinions.

"YAB a bit U

oh,they all do that.don't be so touchy!... i know they can be a bit condescending,but am sure she was only trying to be nice

YANBU. I hate it too.

I think YABABU

No. It used to drive me mad when midwives/doctors used to call me Dad.

Behavioural psycholgists identify this as a classic way of establishing the midwife/doctor as the superior person in the room. You have to refer to them as Dr/Nurse Smith but they call you Mum so making you the supplicant or the non person. "

and then the next few people say they dislike it as well, although some dislike it and aren't massively bothered. hardly 'It was illuminating to see how many early posters said that they did not mind being called "Mum" or even liked it.'

i think drs just don't like being disagreed with, tbh. why else persistently twist the truth like this? bonkers, just bonkers. and yes, i am my dd's mother.

the hcps who've answered on this thread have come up with all sorts of reasons why we should not be listened to, the resistance has been a real eye-opener.

PS. does the use of brigade or gang invoke Godwin's Law or is that strictly Nazis?

HerBeatitude · 25/08/2009 17:24

jybay HCP's may have said they did not defend the practice, but most of them have also said it is not a big deal, the NHS has bigger things to worry about, anyone who worries about it must have an enormous ego., etc. In other words "OK, you lot are right, but we're going to undermine your arguments by pretending it is trivial and unimportatn and you are just a lot of ranty bee-in-the-bonnet nutters really, all the sane people don't really care".

D'you see how undermining and patronising that is?

As for all the other people who don't mind not staying around to defend the practice - perhaps it's not because they are being bullied, but because there is nothing to argue about for them? We don't mind if they want to be called Mum - that's up to them, and we're not telling them they can't be, if they like it. We're just asking for HCP's to treat us with the respect that those who like being called Mum are treated with - call us what we prefer, not what you prefer. Why is that so controversial?

loobylu3 · 25/08/2009 19:47

aitch, I'm afraid your posts are being 'misinterpreted' because they are peppered with words like fuckwit, thick, twit, power grabbing, etc. Your tone is bullying. You told me:
'we're telling you on here you should be falling all over yourself this information and bringing it up at your next practice meeting'

'just raise it at your next meeting. and try not to let your colleagues chortle and snort that haw haw if that's all they've got to worry about. try to make them take it seriously....'

Who are you to tell me what I should or shouldn't prioritise at 'my next' practice meeting/ departmental meeting? How do you know what other issues need to be raised? Even if you are right that this is an important issue (and communication with patients IN GENERAL undoubtedly is), it is bullying to try to dictate when you know nothing about the other issues that may need to be raised.

Snapple, thx for clarifying that. I take my remark back!

I have actually had a chance to look at your document now. It does not want make me want to run off to a practice meeting and show it to my colleagues at all. I actually makes me quite sad and cross. It really shows, I'm afraid, that some of you completely fail to understand the state that the NHS is in if you think this is a very important document (relatively speaking). It is a document from one NHS trust (not a national one) but there are probably other trusts producing similar documents up and down the country. It is written by a 'patient and public involvement manager' who probably gets paid a fairly generous salary. I expect there are a large number of other managers at that trust with similarly vague names. Infact, there are now more managers working for NHS trusts than there are clinical staff. It shows a set of guidelines instructing staff how to address patients by their full name, followed by their name of choice. It also mentions satisfaction surveys to check whether staff have followed these guidelines. How much do you think all of this has cost the taxpayer- managers salary, secretary, junior manager, office, production of survey, distribution of surveys, etc? I think this is a SHOCKING waste of money in a CASH STRAPPED NHS. This is exactly why other posters have talked of priorities. Of course, we should aim for excellence. Of course patients should be treated with dignity and respect. Of course staff should be trained in communication skills. No one has disputed that! Yes, there are plenty of things wrong with the NHS and sometimes the way they are dealt with is poor. Yes, the hierachical system should be replaced. But I would rather (yes, we DO have to ration and make choices in the NHS) see taxpayer's money spent on ensuring that patients have very high quality clinical care. I would RATHER it was spent on expensive treatment for oncology patients so that all have access to the best, on ensuring that all the beds on SCBU can be open because the unit is well staffed by expert nurses, that staff are well treated and retained by the trust which in itself ensures far better quality of care for patients. The government and managers have been squandering NHS money on so many things, (private sector involvement being one example). The government have different priorities to the clinician in the NHS. They want short term gain and catchy headlines so that they can get voted back in. They set targets which the managers jump at otherwise they don't get their bonuses and the trust gets less money. The managers then put pressure on the clinicians and even fabricate results to make it look as if targets are met in some instances. Of course it is good to have targets and to analyse and audit performance but the government (and their advisors) are not necessarily the right people to set them. I fear that the NHS will not exist by the time our children are mothers and fathers and that will be sad.
Rant over.......
Back to the OP- the nurse was rude to persist in calling you mum. I can understand that some people find this v patronising. Others don't. I will discuss this issue with some of my colleagues (when I have a chance). You all deserve to be treated with respect when you attend with your children.
Calling people by the preferred title, however, is NOT a top priority in the NHS. Some of the posters at the start of this thread grasped that but others of you just haven't!!

jybay · 25/08/2009 19:54

"i think drs just don't like being disagreed with"

Whereas you're fine with it, of course.

For someone who is keen on spouting cod-psychology, you seem to have remarkably little insight.

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 25/08/2009 20:02

peppered? rubbish. nice try, but utter rubbish.

fuckwit - used once in ironic response to swc's posts.

thick - used once to someone who was either being thick or hadn't read the thread. repeated oft to clarify for sm. take it up with her.

twit - er, seriously? you think twit is terrible? used once, in response to a telling off (from you i think) about personal responsibility, which was incredibly rude.

power grabbing - actually i've never used this. i've used 'power grab'. as in an act, rather than a descriptor. i've never for example said that hcps are power grabbing, as you seek to imply.

if you want to get into bullying* then i think that your high-handed tone throughout bullies and patronises, and in persistently seeking to identify me by name rather than communicate with the many people on here who think that you're defending something that is pretty indefensible, you are distorting a perfectly reasonable discussion. not to mention the fact that nine times out of ten you've been completely and perhaps purposefully misinterpreting what i've written.

like HB says, i think anyone without an agenda on this will be able to read the thread and see what's really happening.

oh, and who am i to tell you to do anything?

I Am The Patient or the Mother of the Patient and what's more, i am a taxpayer and I pay your wages.

*chortle snort haw haw etc if you think this is bullying then you've never been bullied in your life. this is an internet discussion.

HerBeatitude · 25/08/2009 20:03

Gosh, I didn't realise that not calling me mum would decimate oncology services.

I simply do not believe that it is cheaper to treat someone with disrespect than with respect.

The research says the opposite - patients who feel empowered and respected, manage their illnesses and conditions better than those who feel helpless and dependent. It's cheaper to have a culture of respect than one of disrespect. And that's what this argument is about.

jybay · 25/08/2009 20:04

"anyone who worries about it must have an enormous ego "

but I didn't say that, did I? I said that Aitch must have a big ego if she believed that an HCP calling her "Mum" was as bad as a teacher not teaching a child. I stand by that.

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 25/08/2009 20:04

lololol jybay. i LOVE being disagreed with. it's my bread and butter. love it love it love it. and what cod psychology, by the way?

HerBeatitude · 25/08/2009 20:08

No Jybay you didn't say that and I didn't say that you'd said that. So it's OK, you don't need ot defend yourself against it, no-one is accusing you of it.

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 25/08/2009 20:09

jybay, i DID NOT say that. shame on you. shame on you. that is a disgraceful lie.

i said, quoting you, i think...

"By AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis on Mon 24-Aug-09 20:07:11
"3) If this is all you have to worry about with regard to healthcare, you can count yourself very lucky. "

i hate this. there's always the implied threat, isn't there? what a disgusting attitude. shock can you imagine a teacher getting away with telling the parents of pupils that they should count themselves lucky that their kids are getting taught? "

do you see? you are snorting at people worrying about this one issue because haw haw at least our kids are getting medical care?

scottishmummy · 25/08/2009 20:15

LOL at the misconceptions of hcp here.the arrogant baw heided egotist may be the domain of television but is certainly not the norm.the public are not deferential passive individuals beholden to staff. i can assure you most people can and do speak up for themselves

the nhs system also has support mechanisms as check and balance
such as PALS
independent Advocates
member's of public as governors

yes there are undoubtedly the odd egotist(and it is odd)however they are very much the minority

vast majority of hcp are regular folk who
pay the mortgage
see their children
do a vocational job because we want to
oh and occasionally MN too

this confrontational,hectoring and mass assumption made about demeanour and volition is lumping all hcp as ahomogenous mass

and just as people herwe ahve coerrectly asserted they dont like generic mum it isnt right to assert global and erroineous assumptions about hcp

or bandy anecdotes about as if thety are truisms. anecdotes are subjective and true for the person concerned but they are not applicable or replicable to another mass of people eg hcp

if all MN anecdotes are to be believed then all MIL are foul and horrid.because god knows there are enough "you will never guess what my MIL did the Coooooooooow". Aha not my MIL not my mum i hear you cry. oh i see, because not all anecdotes apply to all people

HerBeatitude · 25/08/2009 20:17

I don't think anyone would disagree with that SM.

No one is saying this is an active conspiracy.

A culture isn't the same as a conspiracy.

scottishmummy · 25/08/2009 20:20

i am offsky,this is a cantankerous irascible thread and any hcp who dares postulate a contrary opinion will probably get their head jumped upon

as you were

FairLadyRantALot · 25/08/2009 20:23

hmmm....mixed feelings about this, tbh...obviously as op pointed it out to the nurse that she did mind to be referred too as mum, she shouldn't....but I don't think there is a general nastyness intended...and if it is a nurse at the odd apointment which you or your child don't have regular contact too , than I think it is more a matter of trying to ease the situation....it's a different matter if you have a child with a long term condition and have regular contact with specialists etc. , than I think it is not unreasonable whatsoever to wish to be called by your own name...
not sure if I am making sense, sorry

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 25/08/2009 20:23

have read the second part of looby's post in detail now.

has anyone even remotely said that this is or should be the top priority for the NHS?

no. not once. not even slightly. complete hijack again. disappointing.

something like not addressing patients' mothers as 'mum', or bringing it to the attention of colleagues, is something that every single member of the NHS can make a difference on, just by deciding not to do it any more, or by deciding to bring it up at the next staff meeting.

it needn't require a document written by a member of the managerial staff, you can do it yourself and make, as chegirl and riven in particular have explained, a tremendous difference to patient care. so i don't see why one wouldn't, now that it's been pointed out. i look forward to hearing what the response it, looby, when you do it.

HUGE respect to those hcps who have brought it up, such as plus3, or have paused to think about how they and their surrounding colleagues approach this matter in the future.

lovechoc · 25/08/2009 20:25

am joining this thread a tad late now, but have to say I've never taken offence to being called 'mum' at the surgery. I personally find it quite amusing and play along with it, just for a laugh (great way to pass the time of day!).

think there are some people need to take the rod out of their own back...

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 25/08/2009 20:30

exactly, hb, it's not a conspiracy, how could that even be possible in an organisation as large as the nhs? imo it's just a daft little bit of hospital jargon that young members of staff hear older members of staff using, and so they use it without stopping to question whether it's a helpful way to address people.

this needn't be a biggie, i don't know why it is, really.

and i can trace the poiint that it became bad-tempered, funnily enough. it was when sm turned up. it really was, look for yourself.

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 25/08/2009 20:31

btw two of my very closest family members are hcps. and not even slightly baw-heided.

HerBeatitude · 25/08/2009 20:33

I'm not irascible at all.

scottishmummy · 25/08/2009 20:36

scottishmummy? she isnae even scottish
so for the millionth time don't exaggerate

all the name calling
repetitive cutting and pasting
and [angr y][sh ock]faces
somewhat added to the cantankerous riposte

FairLadyRantALot · 25/08/2009 20:47

wow there is quite a discussion bunfight going on, isn't there

Sassybeast · 25/08/2009 20:58

If a promise not to call anyone mum, will everyone promise not to call me 'Oi you - empty my bedpan' or 'Cow' or 'Bitch' or any of the other standard Saturday night in A&E vocabulary ?

Swipe left for the next trending thread