To still be BF my 4-year-old?

[NaturalMama]

Sounds really bad in the title. My first post on here after lurking for a very long time. I'm also posting this in Breast/Bottle Feeding but figured this would attract some honest opinions as well.

I've started to get quite a few snarky comments and dirty looks when people hear that I'm still breastfeeding my eldest. These are not from mere strangers but from dear close friends and immediate family.

My eldest is 4.2, going into reception and he has had access to 'minty' ( his word) whenever he likes since birth. At the moment he currently has it after breakfast (and after I've fed his sister), in place of and/or just before or after his afternoon kip around 2pm, and just after tea. Sometimes more, sometimes just once. He is very excited about going to school but he's always been a very very shy boy and we've had talks about him not having minty during the day but he seems okay with it. I've never tried to get him to stop as I think if he asks for it, he obviously needs the comfort. He's never had a dummy/comforter and shows no interest in bartering minty time for toys, sweets, etc.

I had a baby when he was 2 who passed away at 4 months old. I do admit that feeding my eldest was just as comforting for me as it was for him during that time, and I felt it wasn't fair on him to go cold turkey when he was having an emotional time as well.

My youngest is just gone 7 months and she feeds about 5 times a day, obviously between when DS has a go.

Family is starting to tease DS about it saying he's not a big boy and his school friends will think he's silly. It's a private thing and we are always alone when we do it (apart from DD and DH) but family/friends ask me if I've stopped yet and I feel a bit huffy about it.

I know he's not getting anything nutritionally out of it, but can I ask the Mumsnet jury what you think? Is it harmless/comforting for him especially at a time of upheaval (i.e. sister being born, loss of second, starting school) or is it time to give it up and if so - how on earth do I go about doing this? It's not about me babying him as I have another baby I can happily feed for at least another two years!

BadgersArse, I could not have put it better myself

Nope.

It is your opinion.

Our experiences.

Your opinion is based on, well, I don't know what it's based on tbh.

Our experiences are based on, erm, our experiences.

Surely those who have done it have a slight advantage when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of nursing a 4yo?

But can your opinion not be disputed, debated and considered? If not, then you're exactly the same as the OP!

Weirdy, weirdy, weirdy!

The op didn't ask whether it was "odd" or "unusual", she asked whether it was "harmless/comforting".

If you think it is genuinely harmful for a 4 year old to breastfeed, then by all means give us your evidence. But if your only grounds are "it's weird" then you are not all that different from any other bigot and shouldn't get too surprised if you are treated accordingly.

I don't actually remember using the word weird. But hey ho carry on, I'm off now.

So you don't think it's weird, walkingwith? That's good to know. Just "bloody odd" then. Well done for clearing that up.

Totally agree with anniemac.

badgers i am not entirely sure that helped although it did make me giggle a bit.
Anniemac,your post is well reasoned.
What i do think is this thread has been hijacked by people to enforce their opinions-as the op stated-she's not really comfortable with scrutiny of still bf. therefore what do other people think.
Those of you who are of the 'feed till they're driving and don't care where they do it'(this is deliberately obtuse but i don't want to say an age incase it drags out more mothers feeding at X age and stating how it is ideal for them)will of course say that it isn't weird and odd-i don't know what i think,i have friends who are still feeding at a late age (imo)we don't discuss it,in as much as i don't discuss how many cuddles i gave the baby,what she had for her tea etc etc. it's irrelevant. the ebf'ers on the thread are speaking from their own angle. The op wanted a cross section,she's got one here-and whether you (or i )agree that one should feed until one wants and fuck everyone else we don't live in that society-we live in one where people will think it's odd-and that in itself-whether right or wrong is the op's dilemma...
your baby,your choice-i couldn't give a fuck one way or the other-but-being the 'different mother' at the park gates and therefore having 'the different child' did not make for a fun time-if the op wants to stop then she has enough opinion from both sides to make a decision now.

I understand what you are saying anniemac about doing things differently with a 4yo than with a 2yo.

In our case, my ds breastfeeds in a different way than he did when he was 2. I obviously don't mean physically in a different way of course. He knows it makes him feel better. He knows he enjoys it, both the taste and the closeness. He knows it makes him feel all snuggly at bedtime and helps him sleep, and he makes a concious decision to ask for milk so he can enjoy it, and help calm/soothe him if he needs it. Sometimes if he is upset, he says he doesn't want milk, he wants a story.

Perhaps a 2yo knows this stuff too, but i doubt if it is in the same way as a 4yo.

We discussed the "babying" aspect further down the thread. You don't understand it becuase you've never done it. I do not know one single EBF mother who does it to keep their child a baby. I'm afraid it is one of those EBF myths.

Anniemac, just to recap some of the anti-natural-term breastfeeding arguments on this thread:

"Sorry but I just think it is odd"

"stop trying to cling to the babyhood time"

"frankly, if one of my friends did it, I would think it a bit weird."

"I know damm well [ds] would think it was bloody odd and I would imgaine he would not be able to stop laughing. Don't you think it is time to let them get to the next stage in life, don't you feel odd with a huge child sitting on your lap BF not a small baby?"

"Weirdy, weirdy, weirdy!"

Where on earth are you getting the idea that mumsnetters are afraid to post negative comments about breastfeeding older children?

Your description of helping your child move through each stage by deciding when they should give up nappies/bottles/bf etc is entirely reasonable, but you must surely see that each of those decisions is personal and subjective. They do not represent some ideal template which all parents should emulate.

"I would find it hard to understand because to my mind it would suggest treating a child as younger than it is and I always find that peculiar and wonder about the reasons why people choose to "baby" children beyond toddlerhood."

Sigh.

It's only 'peculiar' for older breastfeeding toddlers to be as rare as hens' teeth in the West, and it's only become the norm for babies over 1 to be completely weaned from the breast, since formula became a commercial product and since bottlefeeding became ubiquitous.

Why don't you just admit that your 'norms' when it comes to this are shaped by the idiosyncracies of the culture you live in, rather than by the natural progression of the nurturing relationship between a mother and her child, or by the way in which children themselves mature and grow towards independence.

Bottlefeeding and breastfeeding are in no way equivalent - especially in terms of how they are experienced by mothers and babies. I absolutely hate it when people say 'you wouldn't give a child of 4 a bottle, so why breastfeed a child of the same age?'. Bottlefeeding is always and only primarily about getting milk into a baby - even if it's a nice nurturing experience for mum and baby. Nursing is not just about getting milk into a baby - it's part of a complex process of communication between a mother and her child. Besides which, there are very pressing health reasons for not giving small children bottles, where as there are no pressing health reasons for not breastfeeding - the opposite in fact. Babies who are breastfed long term have better jaw development and aren't subject to the sort of dental disasters you see in toddlers who persistently take all their feeds through a bottle.

I absolutely agree with Sabire that breastfeeding and bottle feeding an older child are by no means the same.

Breastfeeding is a relationship. A bottle is an inanimate object.

Your dd probably was old enough to give it up at the stage she did anniemac, but that doesn't mean that she would also have been ready to wean, had she been bf at that stage.

anniemac, I don't think you were wrong at all. As you say it was your choice and your parenting style. I don't think I have seen anyone on here berated for deciding to stop breast or bottlefeeding their child at 6 months, 12 months or any time after that.

But for some reason those who decide not to withdraw the bottle/breast at whatever age are subject to all manner of abuse. I'm still not entirely sure why.

in short, anniemac: giving up breastfeeding is different from giving up bottle feeding. they are not relationships of equivalent purposes or outcomes.

a 4yo who is breastfed is still receiving antibodies in addition to nutrition.

the presence of these antibodies in human milk is something which nothing else in nature or the laboratory can give a child. therefore a child who has access to these antibodies is a very lucky child, especially in the West where the availability of medicine makes many people conclude that it is less valuable there fore somehow disposable.

Yes - didn't mean to imply in my last post that these are equivalent. And obviously there are some fairly well-documented negative effects associated with older children having bottles.

I fed and continue to feed my children and nurture them and communicate with them in a way that i choose-i don't think an EBF has the monopoly on that and it doesn't have to be a 'part of a complex process of communication between a mother and her child' Why can it not just be a normal part of life,and absolutely fuck all to get all worthy about?
You do it your way,i'll do it mine but at the point you mention 'complex communication processes' rather than 'giving them milk and cuddles'(as we all do by the way,like i say,there's no monopoly on this for you) it makes a bit of me want to judge you when actually,ordinarily,i wouldn't-I frankly don't give a shit how long you feed/why you do it or where you do it...if it's the most natural thing in the world (which i agree,it is) then please shut up about it and get on with it.

see sleepless, why can't it be just a normal part of life. that is all it is, really, normal. it should not be something worth starting a thread about on MN but here it is. it shouldn't be something for rellies and friends to pass comment on but it is. It shouldn't be something to make telly progs about but there it is. It shouldn't be something to keep secret for fear of being considered a freak but it is. it should be a non issue. but it isn't.

breastfeeding isn't normal. that is the problem.

I don't understand what you think I was implying anniemac.

Yes pseudo. I would love for nobody to bat an eyelid about it.

But I don't see that happening for a long time as long as there is all the myth and ignorance going about that we have in today's society.

"I think the problem with threads like this on MN is that it is more likely to attract responses which agree because anyone who has been on MN for a while will know that if you disagree with Bfing older children even if you are generally pro breast feeding you will get attacked - its like a type of MN ettiquette therefore not to post any negative responses."

Do you think it is fair to use the word 'attack' when women share their opinions which are based on evidence based research in several different fields as well as personal experience?

Attacked by facts? I don't mind too much to be attacked by facts. It may smart for a while but then I respect the person who furthered my knowledge or opened my eyes. It may not be what I like or want for myself but still...I think part of the problem is that research is on the side of EBF rather than the cultural mores of the West.