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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
nybom · 12/08/2009 16:26

aaargh...

as long as people such as longtalljosie are still making up things i (or DH) have said there is no point commenting. and the genuine my arse questions you're raising (nationality, chronic condition), i said before and i'll say it again, i chose not to answer in order to protect myself and for noother reason.

honestly, this topic was "greeted" by posters with comments such as FUCK THE FUCK OFF (thankfully deleted my mumsnet) and it has continued throughout.

now SHOO, girls, off with you to the mynob thread!!!

OP posts:
nybom · 12/08/2009 16:28

also, OMG, one hour for waiting for a reply by me, what the...??? am i not allowed to do anything else during the day!?! my life doesn't revolve round MN you know. sad, if your does...

OP posts:
josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 16:34

Sorry Nybom i think you will find that i actually said that i could understand that you wouldn't want to post your own condition on her, I did not and would not push you into giving personal information like this that other people might be nasty about or make horrid flippant comments about. I AM genuinley concerned re the BF/FF issue and if there are chronic conditions that can be prevented through BF, but i will also my doctor and Midwife when i go and see them on Friday as i trust that they acutally have the training to be able to answer the question accuratley. This is why I waited for your answer as i thought that you might actually bother to answer a genuine question that people were showing genuine concerns about, clearly i was wrong. Not because i am Sad!

I think you will also find that at no point have i made any personal digs or attacks at you, and in fact have asked others to be fairer to you in checking the posts re CB and CTC but thanks for stooping to the level that some of the others have on her and had a go at me!

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 16:36

NB, also should be ask

PeachyLaPeche · 12/08/2009 16:47

Juicy prety sure I didnt post anything nasty you know

Still ahvent had an answer to my question about Nybom what do- risk hurting the poor by tightening up every alley, or allow the possibility of some errors (whilst as someone rightly said having heavy penalties for those caught) in order to ensure that those in need definitely receive the help they are warranted.

Its one or t'other.

The possible proposal about some disability benefits is a prime example (there's a link to a petition on chat btw): to ensure no mistakes ever whatsoever they are looking at being tested by social services- meaning a great many famillies likemine who cannot get or do not quialify for SS help will be left high, dry and very probably homeless (our local SS doesn't accept ds1's diagnosis, and ds3 is on a many year waiting list for help)

link here

Longtalljosie · 12/08/2009 16:54

Which bits have I made up then? Apart from the bits about hamsters, which I accept was facetious

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 16:56

I think there were a couple of bits on your post juicy that you misquoted as coming from Nybom, so not really you making it up just an error i presume on your part.

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 16:57

Sorry Longtall not juicy, pregnancy brain moment!

Longtalljosie · 12/08/2009 17:02

Which ones were those though? Have re-read. I'm as sure as I can be the poster claiming to be her husband said it was an EU country she was from. I think the non-EU stuff could have been speculation by other MNers, true... As for whether she and the husband are the are one and the same, s/he was asked and did not answer, so questions do remain.

All the formula feeding stuff was pretty recent... and she said herself she has a background in sociology.

josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 17:07

the non EU stuff was an assumption that i made, (and noted that it was an assumption) although nybom did then try and turn this into something nasty and racist that had been said!

I am not sure what else she thinks that you are making up, as the rest can be clearly enterpreted from either her posts of the DH's posts.

nybom · 12/08/2009 17:17

josie

"- She's got a background in sociology but has never studied this particular social problem or has any insight into it"

never said to what extent i did or didn't study this particular problem

"- She comes from a country which is both EU (according to her husband who may or may not also be her alter ego) and non-EU"

both EU and non-EU is made up

  • Her country handles social security better than ours but we are not allowed to ask which one and make up our own minds on that, because to do so would be racist

noone claimed that. DH was asked how SSS in our country works, he explained (objectively)

"- Formula feeding is a "luxury", except when it isn't, and only 1% of people are unable to do it, except when they can't because of reasons of no support, and then they are excluded from her figures, even though it has been pointed out her 1% figure is a physicological inability rather than a social one. Oddly, her sociology qualification gives her no insight into that either"

this is a bit twisted. don't even know what you mean...

"- She has evidence that formula feeding causes some un-named illness, but we are not allowed to know which one."

no, the illness has other reasons, BF helps prevent it

"- Anyone who is concerned by this assertion and wants more information on it is unreasonable."

no, not anyone. it is reasonable to ask. i never said it was unreasonable. but i don't want to give out personal info, particularly in this mob atmosphere

OP posts:
josiejo79 · 12/08/2009 17:20

Sorry, why is that addressed to me when i didn't make the statements??

Longtalljosie · 12/08/2009 17:24
  1. Well if you have insight into this, why would you be (repeatedly) asking?
  2. Well it's either in the EU or not in the EU. It must be one of the two.
  3. I read your husband's posts and don't recall him giving a blow-by-blow account of how SS works in your country of origin - but if you give me the page number, will re-read
  4. Oh, come on. That was covered in detail.
  5. That is a fair point. You did say BF prevents it, sorry. But...
  6. You have caused a lot of FF mothers worry about some condition they aren't allowed to know about. Surely you can see that?
itsalwaysthequietones · 12/08/2009 17:26

nybom you are making yourself out to be the victim here when you have wilfully ignored any constructive comment and chosen not to answer reasonable questions. If you had chosen to ignore the more agressive posts and answered the others it would make a bit more sense.

Admittedly AIBU threads can be a bit feisty but you knew that from experience so why post on a contentious subject then choose to get all upset about the people who react angrily and ignore the ones who ask you serious questions. You don't want a discussion. You made up your mind well before you posted. And you have made an assertion that your cultural background somehow justifies your views and are now too scared to say what that background is because you know very well that your assertion was just a limp-wristed attempt to make your views sound more acceptable.

I can see no other explanation for your attitude or refusal to engage with people who question your attitude.

Finally, on the BF/FF issue, I don't see how supplying evidence to back up your claims about formula feeding is giving out personal information

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 17:33

only got about 5 pages to go ppl. Can I just make the point that when this thread gets full up nybom may try to start no 3. If this happens can we please all ask MN to remove it?

Longtalljosie · 12/08/2009 17:35

Well - why don't we all hide this thread now? Finishing it will only give her the excuse to start up part 3

nybom · 12/08/2009 17:37

sorry josie (jo79), was meant for (longtall)josie!

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 17:37

Well yes but I'd rather see it die. I don't trust nybom not to cry victimisation to any newcomers.

Longtalljosie · 12/08/2009 17:38

Fair point.

nybom · 12/08/2009 17:39

curiosity - why do you want censorship? what are you afraid of?

OP posts:
Doobydoo · 12/08/2009 17:39

Can't believe this thread still going

teamcullen · 12/08/2009 17:39

Lets use up the thread thinking of what the next thread should be called.

maybe,

AIBU to think that all MNer should agree with my superior views?

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 17:40

nybom - if you were actually saying something you might have more of a point.

curiositykilled · 12/08/2009 17:42

nybom -

cen·sor·ship (snsr-shp)
n.

  1. The act, process, or practice of censoring.
  2. The office or authority of a Roman censor.
  3. Psychology Prevention of disturbing or painful thoughts or feelings from reaching consciousness except in a disguised form.

To say I am not going to hide the thread because I don't trust you not to make claims I was involved in racist/bullying behaviour without me being able to respond is not censorship.

nybom · 12/08/2009 17:44

you know what is really weird, curiosity...?

so far the only ones who have "cried victimisation" have been the ones outraged, and plenty so (i can't BF, my partner has left me, i have a disabled child, i spend money on soandso) allthough they were NEVER even addressed. yet, when one gets attacked verbally it is that person should be censored...

OP posts:
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