to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

it's been the first one in 2 weeks that's got enough hours, - and the "right" hours - can't afford the childcare if we both work unless I did night shifts like before. I'm not going to do nights again like I did before though - they screwed me up big time last time I did them. Ended up with horrendous depression, lost 3 stone in just under a year (yet was eating loads), and was the one of the final nails in the coffin for when our relationship broke up.

There's just nothing around that isn't shift work - but if he does shift work I'll have to give up the organ playing because I have meetings and stuff related to it - and we need that extra £120 a month (well it's less than that at the moment as they've reduced the JSA accordingly).

One suitable job (and apart from not wanting shift work/working late into the evening he's been applying/looking for anything "9-5) in 2 weeks.

Saw one the other day - looked great - 7hrs a day, fairly decent wage.........read the small print at the bottom "based in X" (can't remember name now - but about 70 miles away) - pick up in wellingborough at 5.15am (for 8.30am start)

MCP - not yet I don't think? Although having said that he did have an hour long meeting/interview a fortnight ago in a slightly different location so maybe that was it? Told him how to do a CV..........like he needs telling how to do that - he's got about 8 saved - each "geared" towards different job sectors .

We don't get housing benefit - interest help on the mortgage though.

'tis shite but the job situation round here is terrible - 1800 people turned up for 17 jobs at the new QD store that recently opened . Not much in the public sector either at the moment. A few in other towns - but with no transport of our own makes them virtually impossible to get to as the bus fares would eat up chunks of his wage we can't afford to lose

FAQ - would he get a lift to that job?? Or is it the travel costs that would be the problem??

K999 - which one - the one with "good hours and decent wage"??

Yes, sorry! I have been trying to follow the thread but its very busy!!

good hours and decent wage (just above minimum wage) - was an 8.30 start - but "pick-up" at 5.15am in our town - so he'd be spending 3hours on a minibus (I'm guessing?) travelling gawd knows how many extra miles to pick people up on the way to the shop, then another 3hours back again. So 6 hours travelling each day for a job that's only just above minimum wage !

shop??? where did that come from - job not shop

Oh! So, you would be worse off financially as well!

well I'm guessing the lift would be free......but for an extra 6hours a day that it would add onto his working hours the pay would have been absolute shite.

Well if you are going to be worse off in the pocket its not worth it. However, there are plenty of folk who spend hours commuting to work. And they always say that it is easier to find other employment when you are in employment. Perhaps would be good to get work experience?

but how many people commute for 6hrs a day for a 7hr a day job at only just above minimum wage??

"working" those hours (13hrs a day) would leave us in the same situation as if he were to work shifts I think - I would probably have to drop the organ playing.

He's willing to do anything - as long as the wages match the sort of hours he'd be using for the job - if it was a well paid job with a 1-2hr commute then he'd consider (he did that for several years - and his previous job before he became unemployed he had to travel all over the country - often for a meeting last 1 hour - but the pay - and the mileage expenses he could claim made it worthwhile.

must say though - I got the same feeling look at the advert for the job as I did when he saw a job as a kitchen sales man when he was looking for a job in 2005 (when the business fell flat on it's face before it had even got it's feet off the ground). He applied for it, got it, and even scraped the money together to go for the "training"............came home with all the paperwork for how to do the sales, and how the commission worked and never went back.........we were claiming no benefits at the time (he refused to do so at that time despite us being in dire straits). Thankfully a week later the job that he had until end of last year came up and he got that and it was a much more "transparent" job.

and yes in general it's easier to get another job once already in employment. But how is that going to work with going for interviews - it's not like he could take the morning off work to go for one as he'd be stuck 70 odd miles away with no transport home !

I can see where you're coming from. Its not easy. fwiw me and Dp used to commute for 4 hours a day, but then we got totally hacked off and moved nearer to work.

This may help you...

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8177864.stm

Poverty in a country is defined by how well other people in the country are doing.

Now that we're in a recession there's actually a smaller proportion of "poor" people!

hehe @ "got totally hacked off" - exactly - we couldn't just up and move nearer to his work either - not without landing ourselves in even more debt and dragging the DS's away from here

and while we're on the lighter stuff.

just to prove how willing he is to do anything so long as the hours/pay "work" - when he first lost his job we were still seperated......and he signed up with "Escorts4her"(never got any work mind......but I've said I'll tease him for years to come about it ).

I think I must be mad actually........2 months ago I was enroute to clearing my own debts and actually doing ok (or as well as one can possibly do while living on benefits without anything "on the side")..........I've moved back in with him. Our debts are now all clumped together in the budgeting - and the figure we have to clear has increased 10 fold - while our income as gone down (as bizarrely it is no myth that being a couple on benefits leaves you worse off than being a single parent on benefits ).

how did you work the childcare with you both commuting 4 hours a day btw?

maybe we should just ditch the blokes!!

we all had to get up early and do it together - my mum is a childminder so she watched the dcs for us - but that was also another reason to ditch it - wasnt fair on them.

oh no - I can't be doing all that again - the packing boxes bit is such a hassle

"as bizarrely it is no myth that being a couple on benefits leaves you worse off than being a single parent on benefits"

That is an effing disgrace!

yep - I'd seen it mentioned a few times on MN on these types of threads - MNers on benefits saing they'd be better off if they left their DP/DH - thought they were joking...............apparently not .

JSA for couples - £100.95 a week

JSA for single person (or IS as I was on) £64.30 a week

nearly £30 a week less than if they were each single and claiming on their own - so about £120 a month worse off.

at FAQ!!!

as bizarrely it is no myth that being a couple on benefits leaves you worse off than being a single parent on benefits ).

isn't that cos income support + housing ben is more than tax credits less rent/ mortgage??

is it justified by single motherhood being kind of indefinite wheras you might expect one of a pair of adults to get work sooner or later?

just wondering, there has to be some logic behind it

dunno what the logic behind it is - but while we're sitting waiting for DH to find work it sucks big time.

• I'll be looking for work from next Spring time once I'm into my 2nd course with the OU (which will give me a huge stepping stone into the jobs I'm looking at) - we could actually live off the one wage plus my organ money a month, plus CB and TC's.......he just needs to find the job first