to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

Your "poor" friends sound a lot more fun than you.

They should only be allowed to shop at Primarni and Lidl..the disgrace...I'm spitting feathers I tell you!

why does it concern you so much how other people spend their money. If they want to spend it on booze, pre-cut fruit and leaving their TV on stand-by then so be it.

Have you voice this opinion with your "friends" that are benefits? I'm sure they'd love to hear your pearls of wisdom

Oh it must be most irritating when you consider yourself to be so superior yet the peasants have more than you

omg it's Not On to upset Lulu

A FF (am assuming formula fed?) baby is hardly a fecking luxury!

Or should baby starve?

'Some of my best friends are poor people'. Oh I love that as a disclaimer. It's lovely when there's a reason to be an insensitive, ill-informed, spectacularly nasty and judgmental bore.

And formula feeding as a lifestyle choice and economic failure. I don't know whether to laugh or cry tbh.

Why do you even care? Get on with your own life that sounds very nice - for you. That's the whole point isn't it.

i think pag's post is brilliant and i would like to see the response of the OP, if she can spare a moment from her ivory tower

thing is, I don't claim benefits, but from being a fairly well read and educated person, with a bit of empathy and imagination , i can see how life would be on benefits. and it is really distressing that people who are lucky enough to have jobs/homes/security, like the OP are still of the opinion that simply being luckier than othrs in many respects, makes them morally superior. and that is an utterly repugnany viewpoint

especially in this recession, when anyone of us could be a redundancy or late pay cheque away from doom.

good post pag

Can I also just save you the hassle of typing the following...

I pay my taxes

What's wrong with getting a job

This country's gone to the dogs

Now you can copy and paste and save your wee fingers.

And apologise to Lulu this instant, she has nipple twiddling to recommend and she can't do it when you're annoying her.

You're taking the piss, aren't you

What's the betting that the OP disappears to never return....

By the way, if you are serious, you're being ridiculous.

Oh great, a nice fascist thread - well done OP(!)

And what if they have had the dog a long time? As soon as things get tight, should they abandon the dog in a box on the road?

Maybe they should do the same to their ff baby!

You spent £100 on groceries for a family of four yet manage to buy all organic? what planet do you live on? I want to live there. Or are your children actually the size of mice, and is your partner a hologram?

I agree with some of what you say - don't get that people living, apparently, on or below the poverty line can manage the upkeep on acrylic nails, for example, but it appears that a many of them can. It's about prioritising isn't it? We all do that differently. One thing 'Poor People On Benefits' do not like, is looking 'poor and on benefits' so they may 'treat' themselves and their children to luxuries in the name of 'having standards' about clothing and personal presentation. Ihere are all sorts of ironies there which I will not go into right now...........

I think Pagwatch makes sense.

Although the OP did come across as a bit of a grumpy rant, I think I understand a bit of what she is getting at.

It can be galling to be trying really hard to manage your money so you have something to live in old age when you see people spending it in the most ridiculous ways who will need your support (either directly in the case of families, or less directly if you are a tax payer and part fund benefits.)

SIL is a perfect case in point. Family completely on their uppers through financial mismanagement......but she doesn't want any clothes or toys for her two kids that are secondhand - and buys new clothes for herself regularly. £300 on Dora the Explorer DVDs and magazines was a classic - I know this because she tried to sell them to me!! (Errr, so your dds can't have anything secondhand, but obviously thats alright for my child? I didn't buy them - not because I don't do secondhand, but because I HATE Dora!)Her family (us and MIL) do support them in various ways, but the resentment is starting to creep in.

Anyway - the problem, OP, is that there is no easy answer. Do we take all their money off them and watch the kids starve?

Because everyone is different, comes from different backgrounds, different life experiences, different values and has different skills and priorities.

I work with alot of underpriviledged families (and I mean the ones which come to SS's attention), many of the parents have few life skills, they may have never had anyone to teach them to budget etc. Its also pretty bleak being on benefits long-term and to live a life with no treats to look forward to is just existing.

If you really want to help go to www.do-it.org and volunteer are a Home-Start volunteer. They'll match you up with a vulnerable young family who you can befriend and support, perhaps sharing some of your good fortune and knowldge.

Well aren't you just the bestest, most sensible, superior person ever.

You don't know a thing about their circumstances. A thing. And judging poorer women for FFing is totally unfair without looking at the wider context - societal norms, family pressures etc. Oh and the govt gives poorer families 6.20 a week for formula so that's how they pay for that.

Who are you to decide what is superfluous? Air fresheners? I buy air fresheners cos I don't like the smell of poo [baffled]

And...and...maybe you hit the nail on the head with the last point. They have credit. Before you judge people for being too stupid/lazy/frivolous to avoid using credit try living on benefits. It doesn't go far and needs a high level of knowledge and self discipline to stretch it.

don;t !! this is not about me

If you're a troll, that's pathetic and if you're not a troll then you're a pillock.

A bit flush this week? Go on, splash out and take a break from the bf, treat yourself to a tub of formula, you devil.

• cigarettes/drugs NO
• dogs NO (but if our cat dies we might get a rescued one, and use the cheap clinic)
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals - well, i do buy some but am learning to cook now because, um, we can't afford it
• ready cut fruit,(!!!?!no!) brands,(which brands in particular?) Air freshners and other superfluous crap,(no) kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids (? again these are usually cheap and rubbish, I give mine WKD but watered down)
• to go out drinking NO
• FF babies Never had one of them, despite attempts to
• to leave lights on,(we don't) have electrical appliances on standby,(again we don't) not to use energy light bulbs,(this is my one luxury because energy ones are shit, but we use them for anything left on at night) to keep the water running,(no) to put on half a load of washing,(never!) to leave heating on at night (only when it is COLD enough ffs)
• to maintain artificial nails,(!!!!!!!) to have hair extensions (!!!!!!!! Like!!!)
• buy loads of beauty products - I have ONE blusher and some shampoo
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam - nope, again
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props - never had an actual party for ds.
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

Yes, I have a credit card. I sometimes use it unwisely. Often it is the only way I can afford to pay for a decent (by that I mean clean) carpet, or a cooker when mine breaks.

I hope that reassures you somewhat, but I was only really doing the checklist for my own curiosity.

Your friends are probably up to their eyes in debt but feel so ashamed at being judged by other people that they try to over compensate.

Yes FF is a luxury only the very rich should be able to afford . Natural selection and all that....

Ready cut fruit on the other hand is less about income and more about laziness (and not as nice imo).

op;...what would you like poor people to do?

don't start threads like this then run away.