to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

'I feel that people who actively select a lifestyle on benefits, despite good health, accesto childcare and both a decent education and availability of employment, are a drain on society'

anyone with a decent education and in good health is working/in education...the habitual signers have other social issues at work (drugs,drink,lack training or experience,home-less,mentally ill etc)not just laziness due to this they are in all practicalities un-employable.. tis too simplistic

It was meant to be simpl8istic , an example of something non contentious that's all.

once your Income Based JSA ends you can claim Income Based JSA..you are only referred to IB if you cannot fulfill the requirements of JSA...and now IB exists only for lone parents/people with caring responsibilites..you would now be referred to Employment Support Allowance (ESA)

lol..just re-read my post..I mean Contribution Based JSA ends you can claim Income Based JSA..

Peachy

Ah its probably allc changed then since we had it, phew, used to be crap.

Peach, I have never had the pleasure actually as I JUST SAY NO to synthetic air fresheners and any other synthetic products that are designed to emit a prolonged artificial scent.

Peachy, that example is so non-contentious, even contrived, I wonder if anybody falls within it and if so, I will come on AIBU to judge to my heart's content.

I wonder about penth's statement about being embarassed a benefits system needs to exist at all. I thought it is because not everybody is in a position to take advantage of employment opportunities, however much support they are given (mentally ill, disability, full-on carer responsibilities) or that the training/conditions on which they can take on employment are so limited it would amount to the state paying employers to give them work, so perhaps no economic difference to providing income support.

"anyone with a decent education and in good health is working/in education.."

??????

BS-

Sorry FAQ forgot to add without caring responsibilites

and not withstanding the current employment climate..

And disabilities that place one in the disabliity category without afrfecting ones health status

Oooooh this could become a TV gameshow 'name that exception'

ahh - you 18.24 post finally made sense of the initial comment

I said etc lady!

no you didn't - not about the people that peachy and were ????ing about

To clarify: That figure does, of course, include people receiving disability allowance, etc. That is not the system which "embarrasses" me (emotive language, I admit).

Naturally, some kind of (preferably much much more generous) system needs to exist for the disabled, their carers, and all others unable to work. I find it utterly gruesome that the best we can do for people in this position is, effectively, to allow them to live on the breadline.

What depresses me is that there are so many people on benefits (who could work) for whom there is no other way to live. No jobs; no opportunities; etc. That's why it is embarrassing that the UK has to make such large welfare provisions; that even now we cannot find ways to improve lives in these areas.

I agree with whomever it was earlier in the thread who criticised the 1980s Conservatives, and Margaret Thatcher, for destroying whole communities (mining, industrial, etc.). It is, overwhelmingly, these communities which have such problems today (although there is also the age-old problem of the urban poor in the big cities).

Now, the thing is, I think Maggie and the rest bit the bullet: UK industry and mining, etc., were going the way of the dodo. But to replace it with nothing... Whatever one might think of the Labour government of the past 10 years, they have tried to create or encourage a new kind of services/knowledge based industry in the UK. Unfortunately, this has not been beneficial to the communities wrecked in the 1980s.

Bluddy troublesome so n so

I thought you were talking about Habitual Signers/Claimants..not people who just can't find work..they are different

I really think from experience that JSA longterm claimants get more stick than people who claim other benefits (within the system anyway)...Although I work soley in JSA so I might be talking a pile shite

no I was talking about

"anyone with a decent education and in good health is working/in education."

except they're not all in work or education - as much as most of them would like to be

'But to replace it with nothing... Whatever one might think of the Labour government of the past 10 years, they have tried to create or encourage a new kind of services/knowledge based industry in the UK. Unfortunately, this has not been beneficial to the communities wrecked in the 1980s. '

Actually, the good news is that it is changing in at least some areas- I worked as a Mentor in a school in Tredegar and things are getting better. Slowly perhaps but to real effect.

Oh..those are just people 'who can't find work' ..I admit my post was not clear on that point hence why i added 'not withstanding the current employment climate.. '

most people who are receiving JSA who are educated, (not in extremely specialist field and cannot for various reasons leave said field) ..and have transferable skills end their claim within 3-6 mths..

6 months and counting for DH (about to go onto Income based JSA) >

Forgetting the rather fun game on MN pedantry , that sounds about right.... last time it took DH about that. This time he has a Uni place so it is me that is looking albeit in a very restricted bunch (have to be about for srop off and pick up atm, as ds1 not yet able to attend after school club, hoping next year as ds3's old CM has agreed to take him on again alongside the baby- fab)

Now just to get the local Coundcil to post the forms out- my old PC can't complete the forms online and they have the peerfect if basic job for me.

oh poo - that reminds me DH asked me to ask the vicar if he could use her printer to print out an application form - our printer needs new ink, and his computer can't access PDF files anyhow.

Must remind him to pop over in the morning and ask her.

FAQ right now as you and DH know first hand it's a very difficult job market..has he had his 6th review interview yet?..at 6mths he is able to get help with referrals to professional agencies who will actively help him search for work ..also the recruitment subsidy upto £1000 to the employer and £1500 towards training via train to gain..at this point he would also be eligible for extended housing benefit & CT..funding for clothing and help with fares to interviews (this is available from day 1)..

bluddy hell..I went into work mode there ..he could always consider becoming a civil servant?