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Original poster

to lack sympathy for my friend who is unable to conceive

349 replies

babyetcetera · 14/06/2009 22:19

We went to uni together and my friend met her husband there - they've been together ever since. In the meantime, some of us had children and she went on to have an amazing career...

When she and her husband have celebrated a big milestone in their marriage they decided to TTC. This was when she was 41. It's now been two years and she is in agonies talking about IVF etc.

I'm finding it hard to keep being sympathetic. Of course I am supporting her and I am devastated for her, but I keep thinking that she chose her life and is now being really REALLY unrealistic about having a baby.

Have I lost sight of any sort of human compassion or am I being realistic at this point?

OP posts:
Rubyrubyrubyinthegame · 15/06/2009 10:28

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talbot · 15/06/2009 10:31

Agree with you Shineon. I'm curious, if the woman described was say 48 when she descided to try for her first, would the op have attraced so much bile?

muffle · 15/06/2009 10:32

I don't know, I do think if a woman actually deliberately chooses to leave it until 40+ to TTC, she shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't all go swimmingly, and I can see why a friend might think "well why didn't you start earlier". The thing is though for probably the vast majority of women they are not leaving it that late out of choice. In many, many cases I know of it is the man who drags his feet, because he's "not ready" to be a dad, or is a commitment-phobe, while his partner's childbearing years go by. Women may also wait because they don't feel financially secure enough etc which is a valid reason. Or someone might have had several m/cs or been trying for years and would rather not tell everyone all about that. So, in the OP's situation, I would try to be supportive and kind because you just do not know the whole story.

I do know a couple who are having problems conceiving and they are 40+ and both drink a shocking amount. I would never, ever be unsympathetic to their faces but I do privately think "well don't drink so much".

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/06/2009 10:34

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OrmIrian · 15/06/2009 10:34

You are being unkind. It is possible to do both. Many women manage it. She just assumed she could too.

Sycamoretreeisvile · 15/06/2009 10:42

I think that sometimes people post in haste...

It's a highly emotive issue and I think for Namechangeforareason this OP was obviously a highly painful stab to the heart.

Sometimes it's hard to take the personal out of a more general OP.

I actually hope namechange doesn't come back to this thread because it's obviously upset her and hmmm, maybe I am being sensitive but there are so many threads around at the moment that seem set up to upset or wind people up. I'm sure this one is genuine though

talbot · 15/06/2009 10:43

The point is that while of course it is possible to do both, it's hard to believe that anyone doesn't know that by delaying having children until you are 40+, you are significantly reducing your chances of having a child naturally. That's just a statistical fact.

Shineon, of course you can do that. I have endless friends who I have supported through awful relationships, addiction problems and so on whilst a part of me has remained sceptical.

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/06/2009 10:44

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RumourOfAHurricane · 15/06/2009 10:45

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SalBySea · 15/06/2009 10:50

i do kinda see where the OP is coming from, age is a lifestyle factor.

I see friends say that they will have children once they've got a nicer bigger house, better job etc - they talk about it as if its an absolute given that they will definately be able to conceive whenever they decide to start to TTC, be it 35, 40, 45 etc,"I think I'll wait till we're married, work for 3 years to save up and then have a baby" like the baby will arrive on their timetable

I never felt this way so find it hard to sympathize/understand. I never assumed I was fertile, just hoped. I never assumed I would get pregnant straight away. suppose knowing people who TTC for 5 and 7 years, despite starting young, made me more aware of this. I wanted to start trying for a family in my 20s incase it took years to be successful, that way we would at least have some time to play with. This means that I have a baby in a flat (not the 3 bed with a garden that some friends are holding out for) with my husband still studying full time.

it depends on the individual circumstances really. I sympathize with a woman I know who spend years with an infertile man (who didnt want to adopt or look into other options) who eventually cheated on her and now she is desperate to conceive with her current partner. But like the OP, I cant put much emotional energy into being hopeful for her because I really dont fancy her chances - she was an adult when I was a small child so I do think that sadly her boat may have sailed.

Rubyrubyrubyinthegame · 15/06/2009 10:57

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hifi · 15/06/2009 10:58

are you worried that eventually she will "have it all"? amazing career and a family?

Tryharder · 15/06/2009 10:59

The OP sounds like a reasonable and thoughtful women who has supported her friend through the last 2 years despite her misgivings/own opinions which she is entitled to hold.

The name calling is out of order and says more about the namecallers than the OP.

edam · 15/06/2009 10:59

Of course it would be horrid to say to an infertile friend 'well, you chose to delay having children...' But that's NOT what the OP did. She shared her concerns here, looking for feedback. Which she's had, in spades.

FWIW one of my dear friends has been ttc and going through fertility treatment for most of the past seven years. When I got pregnant with ds, she said ooh, we'll have our babies together! Which I found quite hard to deal with because I suspected there was a good chance it might not happen for her. Made me feel a bit guilty for conceiving ds when she was trying so hard.

I kept quiet, of course, about those feelings, and just supported her. It's a tragedy that she can't conceive despite trying everything.

Sycamoretreeisvile · 15/06/2009 10:59

Shineon - but surely our bottoms are now slim enough to cope?

Never did my work last night. Am not doing it this morning. Am ill prepped for meeting but can't get focussed. MN is my valium

MadameDefarge · 15/06/2009 11:09

Am with Shiney on this one (as ever - note to self, have own opinion occasionally).

Also a teeny hi-jack, how did the date go Shiney?

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/06/2009 11:09

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QuintessentialShadow · 15/06/2009 11:09

But, what if your friend has been trying to conceive for years without having said something? Many people try for a baby for years and it is only when they have a pronounced fertility problem they tell their friends?

A friend of mine who always was adamant they were not really considering parenthood yet, was actually trying for a baby, and had been for years, but told nobody, as they rather be seen as not caring, than be talking about conception and, get the "are you pregnant yet" kind of looks from friends and family.

She is 38 now, and cannot afford IVF, they are on the nhs waiting list, could be 2 more years...

It is bloody heartbraking. Anybody wanting children and not being able to have them have my deepest and most heartfelt sympathy.

How do you know your friend has only started now?

beanieb · 15/06/2009 11:12

I agree with muffle really.

I think that it's easy to assume that a woman with a career has concentrated on that at the expense of her fertility but in so many cases it's not that a woman has deliberately chosen a career over a family, sometimes it just looks like that.

I spent my mid to late thirties really wanting children but was in a relationship where my partner was reluctant to actively try. I could never have entertained having an 'accident' and so I was 37 before I met someone who actually wanted kids. I have a job rather than a career and the only thing that stopped me having kids was my rotten ex-partner who always said 'next year'.

Of course you have to be realistic but I was irritated by friends of mine who constantly went on at me about 'getting a move on' because my fertility was declining.I found it very rude of them, particularly those who talked about the increased risk of things like Downs Syndrome or miscarriage.

Thankfully since I have been trying they have been nothing but supportive even though they might not be completely aware of the distress I feel about my unexplained infertility.

talbot · 15/06/2009 11:12

OP says that they made the decision to start TTC when she was 41 after 20 or so years together.

noonar · 15/06/2009 11:13

tbh, i too would have some feelings along the lines of 'well what did you bloody expect at 41+!'

however, i think that the there is a lack of sincerity in your OP, babyetc. it is not possible to lack sympathy and be devastated for her at the same time, is it? you have professed to feel both. it is this that makes your post attract criticism.

OrmIrian · 15/06/2009 11:17

And I don't understand why you lack sympathy. She might have made a mistake - don't we all - but as a friend who does thay make you unsympathetic?

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/06/2009 11:34

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MaggieBee · 15/06/2009 11:40

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know what the general consensus is, however, I had a friend 3 yrs older than me, she is now 41..

She is an incredibly intelligent person. She was a management consultant, and she taught me the phrase 'backward mapping'. You see where you want you life to be in five or ten years, and you think about what you'd need to do NOW to bring that about.

She was happily married and didn't even start trying until she was 38. I made as many comments as I thought I could get away with, I didn't want to piss her off and lose her friendship, but at the same time, I knew, having been the sort of person who has always got whatever she wanted, she'd be devastated not to have a child. It hasnt happened for her. I do feel desperately sorry for her though, but I just wonder how such an intelligent girl who did definitely want children put it off til 38. It honestly confuses me. She's very upset by it. I knwo she'll get past it. Probably start up another business!!

SalBySea · 15/06/2009 11:41

even if the friend was trying for years in secret, she is now getting to the upper limits fertility wise and it can become hard to stay emotionally involved when friends persue hopes that privately you dont think are achievable

like a friend with a boyfriend / girlfriend who you think is clearly never gonna commit in the way your friend wants them too. after years of the friend talking as if mr fu(kwit is on the verge of an out of character romantic engagement, it can become hard to stay supportive