to lack sympathy for my friend who is unable to conceive

[babyetcetera]

We went to uni together and my friend met her husband there - they've been together ever since. In the meantime, some of us had children and she went on to have an amazing career...

When she and her husband have celebrated a big milestone in their marriage they decided to TTC. This was when she was 41. It's now been two years and she is in agonies talking about IVF etc.

I'm finding it hard to keep being sympathetic. Of course I am supporting her and I am devastated for her, but I keep thinking that she chose her life and is now being really REALLY unrealistic about having a baby.

Have I lost sight of any sort of human compassion or am I being realistic at this point?

my friend has been with her dh for nearly 15y, they both have v good jobs, v low mortgage and a good lifestyle. we were discussing ttc a while ago and she said that she wanted to wait til 35-40 so they were financially secure enough for her to take a few years off work. i expressed my misgivings (unfortunately i am able to draw on my own experiences) and after a long chat it transpired that she was scared. she suffers from depression and saw how sever my PND was. on the surface she was "waiting til the timewas right and concentrating on her career" but actually it was much deeper. do you think this is why your friend has waited?

It is not completely unrealistic to expect to conceive at the age of 40. I had my first at the age of 27, when I was still immature and didn't really know who I was. I don't regret it but I actually like the idea of having a baby in my early forties, when you are much wiser, wordly and confident in who you are.

We all make choices in life and sometimes they don't work out for us. I still believe your friend deserves sympathy, it must be heartbreaking facing the possibility of a life with no children of your own.

YABVU and meanspirited

"I keep thinking...."
It's nothing to do with what YOU think. This is not about you.
Your friend is clearly distraught. Support her becasue she needs it; that's all there is to it.
I'm glad you're not my friend.

My Mum was nearly 43 when she had me. 7 years of TTC and no drugs or stimuli available then.

I have to say that I personally also think that children are a gift, not a right. But that's so easy to say when you are not in the situation of desp wanting a baby with little hope of ever having one. Who knows what I would do if I couldn't.

We are all human and we all have good thoughts and bad ones. I think the important part is to keep them to yourself and do what's right and good for your friend. She has let her guard down by making that revelation to you, so be kind and be patient.

I don't think it comes down to being unrealistic about being able to conceive at 40 plus, but more that at 40 plus, the window of opportunity to do something about it if you discover you have fertility problems is that much smaller.

People do take fertility for granted ime, and most seem to lose sight of the fact that one in six couples actually have difficulty conceiving. That's a hell of a percentage. But if you start ttc at 30/35, you have time to discover that you are having problems, and time to take steps to have treatment to enable you to conceive. But at 41 the chances are much, much lower. And even if you do discover there are problems, your chances of then conceiving through IVF are much lower than at say, 30, or even 35.

I do know plenty of people whose attitude is "well I want to move house/get thihs promotion before having children," and whose response to potential fertility issues is "well I can always adopt." as if it's really that simple.

It is of course peoples' choice to delay starting a family. But if they choose to do that then they need to do so with their eyes open to the possibility that it might not happen, and that they've probably left it too late to do anything about it.

Yes YABU. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot and you were desperately unhappy about a situation in your life that you couldn't change and your friend lacked sympathy? pretty unsupported and hurt i reckon. It is hard when a plight goes on for so long, but that should garner more compassion, not less.

The OP may well say that they have only just made the decision to ttc after being together 20 years, but unless you are actually that couple, you don't know that for sure.

we have been together 16 years, we are only just ttc, but we haven't told many people irl. It may well come to the point that we are looking at IVF etc, but we may still not tell people that. So I dare say we look quite like the couple in the op.

But I never intended to wait this long, you don't know the reasons for it. I daresay many ofour friends will think it's becuase we want the holidays or house or whatever, but really that has nothing to do with it.

I had secondary infertility and the infertility clinic was stuffed full of weeping late 30/40-somethings. I just don't think the message gets through that you may feel 20, look 30 but your innards are most definitely 40 years old.

Matters aren't helped by the fact that celebrities always seem to be able to defy the biological clock and effortlessly breed beyond the years of ordinary females.

It does seem madness when you hear people spouting about their five year plans and assuming that they'll be able to start a family when they're 43. I think there should be more "don't leave it too late" publicity. It is not Daily Mail scaremongering, it is common sense which would save much heartache.

"I don't think it comes down to being unrealistic about being able to conceive at 40 plus, but more that at 40 plus, the window of opportunity to do something about it if you discover you have fertility problems is that much smaller."

It's harder to conceive and it's harder to carry a pregnancy to term in your late 30's, early 40's.

My own sister was one of the 'whoops, forgot to have a baby' ones. She got pregnant for the first time at 42 and miscarried. She's now 45 and resigned to being childless. I really grieve for her as she would have been a wonderful mum. I think in her case she was just a bit immature, and in relationships with selfish men, so just let the situation drift without confronting her fears and longing.

I had a 5 year plan at 28 - to marry and have children by 33, and I did it. DH wasn't ready when I raised the issue at 32 - he thought we could indulge ourselves on two professional incomes for a few years, and then crack on with starting a family. I told him - there was no point trying to feather our nest only to find we end up spending £20K on fertility treatment and marriage guidance further down the line. Then my contraception failed and made the decision for us......

To the OP - I understand how you feel but dig down into your reserves of compassion - your friend will really be suffering. Be kind to her.

I agree that she may have made the wrong choices in your opinion when you were both a bit younger, but we all make mistakes and bad decisions, so you just need to support her through what will be a very hard time for her.

You are lacking compassion.

I met and married my husband at university and we did not plan children for some years. I had (hopefully still after a few years of looking after my daughter) a career as a news journalist but when I was told I had Ashermans after a miscarriage at 34 years I resigned myself to having no children.

After much bungling at UK hospitals I had an operation abroad, a year of hormones and conceived my daughter naturally and had her when I was 37.

Does my leaving it late, and having fertility issues (thanks to a rough D&C) make me any less deserving of your sympathy as a friend? I hope not!

How very mean-spirited of you

veryfragile - many people have a 5 year plan - however, the universe sometimes seems to have other plans for you. Be grateful your 5 year plan worked for you.

Don't always assume it was a choice for a woman to delay trying to get pregnant, don't always assume you know why she didn't get pregnant earlier and just because she has a career doesn't mean she postponed getting pregnant to do so - maybe she did it while trying to get pregnant/stabilise her relationship/find a suitable partner.

Agree with dittany and not now bernard.

got to be a journalist, no?

It seems to me that OP is jealous which I totally understand. I too would have liked to have had a "career" but circumstances other than late marriage and motherhood prevented me from doing so. At the school gate, the working mums get the back-stab from the holier-than-thou SAHMs for collecting their dc at 6pm or, perish the thought, sending the nanny to collect the dc in the brand new Merc/BMW/Audi. I applaud OP for her honesty but think it very unwise to be so blatant on MN about her true feelings. It helps to vent but even on cyberspace, there's a limit.

I think it is a bit of both. Have you talked to her about adoption?

i love it when you see a thread title like this. you just know what the OP is in line for.

I really don't think tales of people who started families at 45 - honestly, no trouble at all! Just looked at dh and I conceived - haha smug me - are helpful. In fact they are positively harmful.

In fact my mother had me at 45, but at 35 I was told I'd run out of eggs. So the only egg I had was on my face that I had assumed I had years left.

All the same, I understand OP's feeling of being a bit narked at friend because if she does happen to have a baby, I'm sure all concerned will never hear the last of it about yes, you can have it all.

Well exactly fircone. Facts are facts when it comes to fertility.

Babyetcetera, I think I understand what you are trying to say ? not that you don?t support her just that her expectations are unrealistic.

I think the real problem is that we are increasingly sold the idea of everlasting youth these days,and part of that is the "stretching" of childbearing years - isn't there a woman who gave birth in her 60s with fertility treatment?

Anyway, I was someone who always said I wasn't ready for kids, but with no serious relationship lasting very long, it wasn't an issue. Then I got together with my now DH, and within a year at the age of 35 I was pregnant - totally unplanned. I decided to go for it anyway, and had gorgeous DD just before my 36th birthday.

Forward 3 years, decide to go for another one, and within a month of trying am pregnant. Felt really quite smug - this having a baby thing is so easy, isn't it? Ah well, no it's not. I miscarried at 12 weeks and then 4 months later lost another baby, at 7 weeks, and boy did I come crashing down to earth. There are no apparent issues, the docs suspect it is just deteriorating egg quality related to my age.

your friend, like me, probably thought having a baby would be so easy, whenever she wanted it would happen. I really think there needs to be a lot more education for young girls about fertility and age etc. I don?t want to be a doom-monger, but I really think people don?t know how much more difficult it can be as they get older ? I think if they did, those in good relationships putting it off for whatever reason, might just rethink their strategy.

BTW, I do think your lack of sympathy is understandable, but still unreasonable! She may have unwittingly made a mistake delaying having a baby, but she needs good friends and support now more than ever.

Good post Amiable - I agree completely