to lack sympathy for my friend who is unable to conceive

[babyetcetera]

We went to uni together and my friend met her husband there - they've been together ever since. In the meantime, some of us had children and she went on to have an amazing career...

When she and her husband have celebrated a big milestone in their marriage they decided to TTC. This was when she was 41. It's now been two years and she is in agonies talking about IVF etc.

I'm finding it hard to keep being sympathetic. Of course I am supporting her and I am devastated for her, but I keep thinking that she chose her life and is now being really REALLY unrealistic about having a baby.

Have I lost sight of any sort of human compassion or am I being realistic at this point?

Right again SP, there are an awful lot of selfish men behind infertility statistics.

mine are, or would be, spicey. i have a great risk of pre-eclampsia and wouldn't risk having another prem baby. the dangers are too great.

but i wouldnt get hung up on that, tbh, if you want another child and would look after it whatever happens then great, go for it etc.

i think the OP's point, however, that of 'ffs didn't you THINK about this when you were jetting off on holiday?' is fair enough tbh.

i have a friend in her late thirties who's been on IVF waiting lists for nearly five years, what with one funding issue or another. as each year has gone by she's become more terrified about her increasing age and likelihood of success. i just find it easier to feel sorry for her and to support her than i would for someone who thought at 41 'and NOW i've got time in my life for a baby'. life's not like that. it's a tough lesson, right enough.

When I had ds ten years ago, I was vaguely of the belief that you could go on popping them out until the menopause, ie that instead of a gradual dip in fertility, you went from full throttle to zero in, say, a month. And the menopause never occurred before the age of, say, 47. Before having ds I had never concerned myself with babies at all, let alone fertility issues.

I know quite a few women who also thought they'd wait until their 40s because then they'd done all the travelling, career building etc by then and that would be a good time to have a break (!!!!!!!) and have a family. It was, and maybe still is, a widespread attitude. And, as myself and others have noted, it is perpetuated in the media as we see a ceaseless parade of celebrities defying all the odds. Funnily enough, many seem to have twins... And I read somewhere that the clinic where Nicole Kidman had her baby specialises in egg donation.

But we're bombarded daily by stuff in the media about declining fertility and in particular, the dangers of "career" women leaving it too late. 10 years ago I was very aware that at 34, I was on the cusp of declinign fertility and that was just from reading broadsheets.

As for the celebs, well it's taken Nicole Kidman years to have a baby (having adopted two in the mean time) and Sarah Jessica Parker is having a surrogate. Plenty of other women in the public eye have had fetrility problems (Anthea Turner et al) and plenty of others have obviously had fertility treatment (Marcia Cross).

All this is making me very depressed and has made me realise that though I consider myself a young 39 in terms of biology and other people's perceptions I am just old and should know better.

My own experience is that of being in a relationship for 13 years where my partner kept saying 'next year' whenever I talked about kids. I only really seriously started thinking about habving them in my early thirties though. Not because I had a career but because I didn't really want children before then.

At 37 I left and found a loving wonderful (younger) man who wanted children. We started trying almost straight away (once we had moved in with eachother) and now I am 39 with one very recent miscarriage after trying for over 16 months and finally getting pregnant after taking Clomid.

Perhaps I am quite sensitive about this issue at the moment. Perhaps I should just hide the thread now and concentrate on doing what is best for me and being positive rather than dwelling on the negative thoughts of others towards older mothers.

ive been thinking about this overnight (got rather wound up by the whole thing ) and a friend of mine is 29 and has gone through the menopause. we saw them at the fertility clinic (cue lots of awkward "what are you doing here?" "got super sperm" "malfunctioning parts" chit chat) they didn't let anyone know that they were having problems conceiving and she said that she wished that they'd started ttc a few years ago so they would have a fighting chance. she's only 29 and has gone through an extremely early menopause, and if she feels guilty and is beating herself up about this how do you think the op's friend feels now.

i do agree that some people are not aware of how severe the decline in fertility is in relation to your age, and although i am only 31 dh and i have agreed that we would only ttc for another year or so before giving up, because i am already such high risk. but i dont think that we should criticise without knowing all of the facts

Beanieb, I can see how sensitive this is for you and I really do apoligise for upsetting you.

I don't think anyone has any negative thoughs on older mothers (indeed I had a baby at 39) but I guess I'm just puzzled as to how people can not be aware of the risks. Having said that, you clearly had no option about TTC earlier so that is pretty much irrelevant.

Good luck anyway - I really feel for you.

I think if you want babies to leave it till you are after 40 is mad (unless you have no choice, for example meeting the right man at 39). It is absolutely fact that it reduces your chances of having the family that you want.

However, I think that you have to have sympathy for her. She has discovered her mistake too late and now can't turn back the clock. Also life isn't black and white - she may not have known that she wanted a baby until she hit 40 and previously decided she didn't want children.

That's an interesting article, Aitch.

I seem to be the other way around. As a younger woman I despaired of having a family; I had trouble conceiving, and had three miscarriages. Then after 35 - three children, no trouble. The last one was born when I was 43, and was both an accident and a shock.

I am not mentioning this to parade my good luck. I did not feel at all lucky in my late twenties and thirties, I was in despair. Rather, I was wondering if some people are simply "late bloomers." My mum told me that both her grandmothers had babies at 48 (although they had babies when young too).

I wonder if people like me are the fertility equivalent of people who smoke 60 a day and live to be 100. Odd, and very lucky - but also misleading to people who may then be given a false sense of security.

beanieB, for every negative thought, there are about 200 positive ones going your way. if you haven't hidden the thread, I really, really hope that things work out for you. mx

Apparently, you can cure infertility.

Fuckwit.

what was that oldladyknowsnothing? the message was deleted.

It was a MN post with a link to a site that claimed you can "cure" infertility through diet. In turn it linked to a bampot fundy site...

It linked here.

ah.. oh ffs!

I love how they call genitals "privates".

Every time someone says "vagina", a kitten dies.

Have been keeping half an eye on this thread (am currently on the tww of my first IVF treatment) but just had to emerge to say WTF?!? about that site oldladyknowsnothing linked to...I know the t'interweb has many nooks and crannies where the strange folk gather but they need to stay off MN

PS Lol at Qally

I would say most of my friends have not had kids and they are all 35+. I have no qualms about admitting that i occasionally feel jealous about their lifestyles, not so much the extra money but the time and freedom they have (I have been doing the family thing since 26 and have been through the whole single parent stuff)
I often find that my childless friends don't understand how hard it can be having kids/babies and can be bloody insensitive and unsupportive, through ignorance of what it actually means to be a parent.
What I'm trying to say is don't judge the op too harshly, you don't know the whole story and insensitivity can strike in both directions.

I think I know what you're trying to say, but maybe have added negative points that have hidden your points. You aren't sympathetic for the decison she made, and you don't want to give her false hope now?

You can't be sympathetic for a decision another adult has made: it is fact that if someone has decided to wait until their fertility has declined (when they could have started earlier) that was their choice, their risk. No-one has guaranteed fertility at any age. At the same time you are friends and would wish it would work out for her, you see her pain have said that you support her and obviously care how she feels.

Perhaps as a friend you can continue to listen and support her emotionally, but not give her false hope, i.e. you can't say 'it will work', but you can say 'I hope this does work for you'. She prob knows her chances with IVF are low, but still needs to try (we all hear about miracles with 50 yr old Mums!) and if it doesn't happen, she needs to grieve the loss of her dreams before moving on.

Perhaps in time she could look into adoption/fostering? I know it's not for everybody, but personally I would have looked down that route if I'd had long term problems, as I think it makes sense for children who need a family to be with people who would love and support them.

"It was a MN post with a link to a site that claimed you can "cure" infertility through diet"

DH and I conceived naturally after changing our diet, following investigations into secondary infertility at the age of 37. We were told we had a less than one percent chance of conceiving naturally and needed IVF with ICSI. I then conceived again accidentally when I was 39, after having unprotected sex on one occasion.

I know changing your diet isn't a 'cure' for infertility and it might have been sheer fluke, but I'll always wonder.

(btw - I had PCOS and endometriosis, DH had a very low sperm count and most of his swimmers were dodgy).

BeanieB, I haven't read the whole thread but I read your post and I wanted to tell you that I had my first baby at 41 because I didn't meet the love of my life until I was 39 and prior to that, I just never thought about babies.

I've always felt really young and I'm SO glad no one told me that I was too old to conceive because now I have the most beautiful two year old daughter now and she has truly made our lives complete.

Don't let negative people hinder your dreams. If you want a baby, do EVERYTHING available to you to make your dream come true. And please consider adoption if your body doesn't cooperate. There are so many needy babies in the world. Good luck!

veryfragile - in what way did you change your diet? (very pleased you conceived ).

My (very good) friend is in the following situation:

She wanted to have her children when she was young, but ended up in 2 long term relationships (approx 10 yrs each) where the bloke (yep, both of the selfish twats) was saying 'next year' 'next year', then when leaving the second relationship (largely due to this) really couldn't find a man she wanted to settle down with, but was not putting herself into a position to do so very often (low self esteem), but she knows that she needs to as she would be heartbroken not to have children. She is terrified at 40 that she wont meet someone and wont have children.

I am so upset for her, she wanted her children young, she was with two lovely blokes (other than the next year thing), the relationships broke down (partly due to this) and now finds herself in this awful situation. She would consider 'going it alone', but still really wants to do it with a partner.

She has a career, has travelled a lot and to a lot of people she may 'look' as though she has 'chosen' this - however, I know she would have given it all up at anytime to have had children.

It's not always the clear cut choice it looks is it...

ChippingIn - I was in the exact same position as your friend and I did it alone. I'm so, so glad I did. Every year she waits, her chances of conceiving declines and being on the wrong side of 40 without a partner or a child is a very bleak place to be. I would urge her to explore how she feels about going it alone seriously.

I followed this programme: (not to the letter, but the basic principles)

naturalsolutionstoinfertility

I think if I was buying a book on this subject again I'd probably go for the Zelda West Meades one though.

Curiosity, my brother & his g/f aren't able to adopt because his first wife won't divorce him & the agency won't accept them as unmarried.

My friend cannot adopt because she is a few stone overweight.

Maybe THAT is why people aren't considering adoption..it isn't as easy as Jolie, Madonna & co make it look.