to think that mothering is completely different for people whose babies sleep

[tinierclanger]

I know we're very lucky really, I have friends whose babies are ill, or have had bad reflux, and some who have split up with their partners.

But I still can't help thinking that those people I know who seem so sunny about the whole thing all the time, it's because they have babies who have slept through from a very young age. I love DS and we have great times together, but I think I would be loving it even more, and finding things so much easier, if he had been sleeping through. I feel quite divided from the sleeping-through mummies, like they have no understanding at all of what it's like to be permanently chasing sleep, and feeling guilty about feeding in the middle of the night.

AIBU really?

Mind you, was never smug about it, and always said to others "I am sure I will not be so lucky with the next one!"

And I was right, DS woke every hour throughout the night until he was 8 months!

AArgh!

'course YNBU. Having a difference experience to others makes it harder to find common ground.

As a mummy to one of those mythical sleepers I can confirm that I have no clue what it's like to have a 'normal' waking-in-the-night baby. I knew I was very lucky to get a good nights sleep but tbh I felt very left out of much of conversations because I couldn't join in...and I felt guilty for having sleep when so many of my friends didn't....

...but then I realised that I had no reason to feel guilty. I had no control over my DS' sleep pattern....and I learnt to find other things to talk about

YANBU. Mine were both reasonable, dd2 can still be an early riser, but knowing other parents who seem to exist on a couple of hours a night and still keep their jobs/tempers/sanity - they deserve medals, IMO.

I hope if mine have babies I will be on hand to help. I lived either in a different country or just a long way from my mum when mine were under 18m, but when she was able to come she was great. It makes such a difference to be able to turn over and go back to sleep for a night or two. And that's with a lovely supportive dp too!

Terramum, I know what you mean. Other mothers either didn't believe me or treated me as if I was not a "proper" mum because I was not suffering the sleep deprivation.

Can't blame them, must be annoying when you are staggering through the day, but honestly it wasn't anything I was doing differently, was just lucky DD was like that!

Mind you, NEVER tell a MW or HV that a new born is sleeping through, they will feel duty bound to spoil it for you!

YANBU, I always feel you can cope with anything with a full night's sleep and was incredibly lucky when DD was doing a 12 hour stretch at 8.5 weeks and DS at 13 weeks.

However, 10 years down the line I am paying for my sleeping babies. DD has been having horrendous nightmares for about 6 weeks now. She has been refusing to go to bed on her own and is up once or twice in the night. So it has caught up with me now and I'm older and less able to cope with the broken nights.

YANBU
my DS does sleep - all night and then a good 1.5 - 2hr nap from 11am so I have plenty of time to do housework play on the computer and watch tv, and I get to sleep and have a sex life. I have friends with babies the same age who are finding it, still, very hard. I feel very lucky.

(just waiting for karma to come and bite me on the arse with a horrible toddler stage)

lockets: "I think I must be odd because I actually don't find sleep deprivation affects my mood or energy levels at all, I wonder if I have just become oddly used to it- my four are very close together. Maybe when ds sleeps through I will suddenly feel all wahoooooooooo."

I am odd like you. Broken sleep does not bring me to my knees (I mean, once an hour-type waking, to cry). I was always quite chirpy so people would not believe it if I talked about my dcs' sleep shenanigans- not that I like to take about it much.

Paradoxically, once my dd started sleeping through reliably, even waking once a night from her would affect far more than broken sleep throughout the night. My SIL reports the same - she had to 'adjust' to her dd finally sleeping through.

Wynken, although I like to believe there is a god, there is nothing to say that poor sleepers as babies would not be poor sleepers later in life either. Sorry to hear about your dd's nightmares. Hope it is just a temporary blip.

None of my DCs "slept through" until over a year so I was never able to claim that. But one breastfeed a night at, say 4am, then snuggle back down till 7am was absolutely fine by me.

They were all on the routine of She-who-cannot-be-named and when I had DS1 and DD (18 months apart) the pair of them would go off for a long (2-3 hour) lunchtime sleep, saving my sanity. DS1 still had this sleep when he started nursery at 3!

So yes, some children DO sleep a lot. And I agree with the OP, it must be totally different if your DCs don't need a lot of sleep. Or if you have two close in age that sleep at different times so you don't get a break.

YANBU at all. My DS was a shocking sleeper, well he just didn't sleep! My friends thought I was being a drama queen when I told them how exhausted I was. For the first three months he never slept for longer than 20 mins at a time and would take up to two hours of rocking, swaddling, etc to get him back to sleep. And he didn't nap in the day for longer than 20 mins either. I would have happily throttled the next person who told me to 'sleep when your baby sleeps'! I somehow survived on an hours sleep a night and could hardly remember my own name. I just remember thinking, how can all these mothers do this and still smile - it is horrible.

DD, however, is completely different. She still doesn't sleep through the night, but she will wake for a feed and then go straight back to sleep again, without all the rocking, crying, etc. I feel so much better this time around.

As for 'the sleeping through mummies', as they really sleeping through? My friend loved telling me how her DDs both slept through from 8 weeks. It was only recently she told me that by sleeping through she meant from midnight till 4 or 5am!

thecrackfox sometimes granny help is not cheating its essential survival.

Ds does not sleep, has never slept. Not in the night not in the day. by 3 months he was down to 1 20min nap per day and by 7 there were no naps. During the night he slept around 8hours in 2hour bursts. He has sleep disorder and that is just that. So when I've had a week of him getting up every 20mins during an 8hr night period granny saves my health, sanity and sometimes i think my son she babysits for 2 hours (trip to [play center) and I sleep. Personally i am greatful for every hour that i sleep -even if it requires 'cheating' and relying on grannie.

YANBU - my two both slept really well from a very early age(and by 'sleeping through', I mean 11pm to at least 6am) and I am 99.9% sure I would have been doing a good impression of the walking dead if they hadn't. In fact, when people would say how 'well' I was doing after I had DD, I felt guilty - after all, what was so hard - DS was at school, DD slept plenty - I was getting more rest than I had for years . Extreme sleep deprivation is used as a method of torture for a reason and anyone with a non-sleeping baby has my absolute sympathy.

Absolutely agree stealth - my dd slept from 11pm to 8pm from birth (even in the hospital surrounded by screaming babies!).

I feel very lucky that I had it so easy with her and my hat's off to all those who cope with months and years of basically no sleep.

And crackfox - there is no such thing as an unfair advantage, mums coping with bad sleepers deserve - and should grab with both hands - as much help as they can get from friends and family.

My definition of sleeping through is not being woken up during my night time, whatever time they go to bed.

And although I got used to being woken when mine were tiny, I felt loads better when they did start letting me get an uninterrupted 8 hours.

I remember my MIL telling me smugly (probably after I'd snapped at her after a sleep deprived night) that her children never had any sleep problems.

I later discovered that she sat every night by their beds holding their hand till they fell asleep, until they were about three...

Frustratedmom - my DS1 was the same. He never slept through the night and had terrible naps which he gave up at 8 months. He didn't sleep through until 3.5yrs and woke up at 5-5.30am until quite recently (He is 8yrs in the summer ) I had no help whatsoever and a DH who is a workaholic - chef so working 9am until midnight. He never once helped out at night. Can't actually believe that we are happily married now.

I suffered very badly form sleep envy and funnily enough a big dollop of PND.

Sill it is all in the past now and actually really enjoy being a mum now.

TheCrackFox - I can't believe that you are happily married now! am so resentful of dh with his 9 hours sleep every night, am constantly thinking of new reasons to rationally be pissed off with him.

sleep deprivation is the worst form of torture known to staines massif, but when you add to this the popular view that controlled crying can be a good thing, and that if you 'give in' and comfort them you are 'spoiling them', it is a recipe for constant guilt and msiery.

i do believe that there are babies that naturally sleep through - apparently i was one at 12 weeks, but my mum neglected to mention that i wouldn't sleep alone until nearly 5 years old. if you've got one, you are very lucky, and i haaaaaaaaate you!

So far the karma thing seems to work (kind of!).

SIL's first baby (bf) slept through from about 9pm to 8am from 6 weeks.

She is now the toddler (2.8) from hell and has been for a year!

My two horrors look like angels next to her.

Needless to say, DS2 still doesn't "sleep through", he is out of nappies so now it's up for a wee, previously it was for a cuddle, before that a bf, before that to scream his lungs off with reflux

DD didn't sleep through til she was 2, but she was a very happy baby and did do a few blocks of sleep during my sleep time. She also always self settled so getting her to bed was very easy. I found it pretty easy with her because although I was tired, she wasn't massively demanding during the day (post 3 months or so)-the only thing was that I never wanted to do anything that involved staying up past 9pm because I knew I'd suffer the next day!

DS on the other hand, has been a terrible sleeper and it used to take hours of vigourous jiggling around to get him to sleep every time. It brought a whole new dimension to sleepless nights knowing that you would go through the whole palava of getting him to go to sleep, only to have to go through the whole thing again an hour or so later. He also screamed the whole time he was awake. He is still very demanding during the day (although thankfully the constant screaming has eased off) so it is VERY hard with him-not only am I knackered from little sleep, I also don't really get any time where I'm not attending to him which makes it all far more draining.

YANBU - DS is 10 months and is a lovely little boy but he can't or won't get himself to sleep, and will wake up 2-3 times every night! it's exhausting, and i end up wasting at least 2 hours every day trying to get him to sleep at nap and bed times.

this thread is actually quite therapeutic!

Mine sleeps through - literally, in bed by 7.30, sometimes wakes within an hour of going to bed, put dummy back in and back to sleep immediately - then wakes up between 6.30 and 8 (but usually after 7)

Try having 3 who never sleep and no grandparents. I lost my Dad recently and he was the last of the four.

I get far more jealous of friends who say their parents or PIL are coming to stay for a few days and more so those who have either set close than I do of those whose DCs sleep through.

YANBU and I agree wholeheartedly.

My first two slept through (9ish till 6ish for clarification purposes)from around 8 weeks and were doing 12 hours by four months. DS2, on the other hand has managed to go 8 till 6.30 three times and he is seven months old. He only has a couple of small naps of about 20 mins in the day as well, and almost never at the same time as DD so I can't get anything done in the house or even have a nap myself.

A typical night sees us up three times a night, but it can be often as six and I am on my knees.....especially as the older two get up for the day around 6am at the minute and I'm finding it hard to be upbeat about parenting as a result as the lack of sleep just makes the whole thing even harder. Dealing with my 2yo DD's tantrums and 7yo DS1's strops is very difficult indeed and I have had moments of wanting to just jump in the car and drive and see how far my three empty credit cards will get me .

I do think it's a cumulative thing though; DS2 is such a happy sunny baby that I could deal with it if he was my only one; it's having the older two to contend with as well that I find difficult.

I agree with you. Mine both slept 12 hours by 12 weeks (not an urban myth!) and it made it SOOO much easier.

oh and that minimum three times up and feeding is between midnight and 6.....he sleeps well from going to bed at 7 until midnightish (can be anytime between 11 and 1).

I also hate that a baby sleeping through is seen as a measure of how "good" or "bad" the baby is...oh, yeah, because he is waking me up just to be a scamp and piss me off , or worse as a measure of my parenting skills, like I must be doing something wrong if he isn't sleeping well.

tis the luck of the draw ime.