to think that mothering is completely different for people whose babies sleep

[tinierclanger]

I know we're very lucky really, I have friends whose babies are ill, or have had bad reflux, and some who have split up with their partners.

But I still can't help thinking that those people I know who seem so sunny about the whole thing all the time, it's because they have babies who have slept through from a very young age. I love DS and we have great times together, but I think I would be loving it even more, and finding things so much easier, if he had been sleeping through. I feel quite divided from the sleeping-through mummies, like they have no understanding at all of what it's like to be permanently chasing sleep, and feeling guilty about feeding in the middle of the night.

AIBU really?

[TheCrackFox]

Granny help = unfair advantage.

[3littlefrogs]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I agree with you. DS1 never slept for more than 2 hours at a stretch till he was 14 months. I HATED and RESENTED people whose babies slept. Especially those who were smug about it.

The tiredness is crippling, and certainly contributed to my PND.

The fact is that the more tired you are, the less easy it is to be objective and able to put strategies in place to solve the problems.

[Reallytired]

I don't think babies were designed to sleep through the night. Certainly not at a young age. Yes, a baby can be "taught" through controlled crying to settle themselves, but it is a matter of indvidual opinon whether this is desirable.

I think its a waste of time feeling guilty about feeding in the night. Afterall whose buisness is it. Also it is easier to get a bottlefed baby to sleep through the night than a breastfed baby as there are no issues with supply.

As for chasing sleep you may get more sleep and go with the flow. My five week old daughter feeds every three hours round the clock. I have taken the side off the cot and placed the cot right next to my bed. It has all the advantages of co sleeping without actually co sleeping.

[MsSpentYoof]

Ds, from 8 weeks, used to go to bed at 7.30, then have a dream feed at 11pm, then would sleep through until 7am+

The very rare times he has been unwell I haven't been able to cope at all, my hat is well and truely off to those who go without so much sleep and still manage to function, I know I wouldnt be able to.

[purplemonkeydishwasher]

i htink the important thing to remember is that it is luck of the draw as to whether you get a sleeper or not.

DS (3.8yo) didn't sleep. during the day during the night, didn't matter. i was exhausted for well over 2 years.

DD (1 month) barely wakes at night. has a quick feed - goes right back down.

I'm doing the exact same thing with her that i did with DS. (co-sleeping, feeding on demand) she just likes to sleep (saying that, she is a LOUD sleeper so i'm still pretty tired!).

[HuffwardlyRudge]

I agree that everyone has a different experience of parenting, and that some find it easier or more generally enjoyable than others.

I don't think sleep is the key though.

My 2 have never slept through. My 12 month old still has a couple of night feeds, sometimes more. More often than not I'm up with my 3 year old too. But, I'm afraid I'm one of those sunny, happy, enjoying it parents. Yes, I'm knackered, but I think I'm just sort of used to being knackered now.

By contrast I can immediately think of women I know who seem to generally find things a struggle (not PND, just that parenting is a heave sometimes) and their children sleep more than I dare to dream mine ever will.

Sometimes I have to sympathise with people when their child "woke up at 7am " and I just grit my teeth and smile and sympathise. I'm lucky it doesn't crucify me, I guess.

[TheProvincialLady]

I dunno actually. DS1 was a horrendous sleeper but after the frst 2 or 3 months I got used to it and was very happy and enjoyed motherhood.

Whereas DS2 is a fab sleeper and was doing 10-8 by five weeks with no intervention from me. But having two is much harder and even though I get plenty of sleep, I am worn out and at the end of my tether by the end of the day.

I will agree with ssd that granny help makes all the difference. I get a day a week where MIL comes over just to play with DS1 and she will also look after DS2 for half an hour so I can get my fringe trimmed and rejoice in shopping for veg without any screaming or knocking over of bananas. It keeps me sane.

[MmeLindt]

It is not an urban myth and there is nothing you can do to influence how your baby sleeps.

DD slept from 10pm to 6am from about 13 weeks, so I would class that at sleeping "through the night".

DS was still up at least twice a night when he was 3yo. He still crawls into my bed some inghts.

My opinion is that the only thing to do is to try and snatch naps during the day, if baby sleeps at all. If not get a neighbour/friend/passerby to take the baby out for a walk so that you can have a wee snooze.

Don't try and be a superwoman/wife/mother/cleaner... Stuff the housework.

[CaptainKarvol]

I think YANBU.

DS is a crap sleeper. He is 3.2 and has never slept through. Sleep training was a disaster.

DD is 11 weeks old. She has already done 10.30-7am, and regularly has sleeps of 5+ hours before waking to feed.

I can and do cope with very little sleep - I have taken up a new career, sat and passed serious professional exams in the past 3 years, while tending to DS 4+ times a night, every night.

BUT, now DD is here and I have to bf her, my DH has (finally) taken over nighttime care of DS. And my dad said to me the other day that I seemed more like myself than I have in years.

I know I feel 1000x better with this amount of sleep, and have more patience, enthusiasm and focus.

For me, sleep deprivation has been a huge part of my experience of parenting. I have often said to DH exactly what is written in the thread title.

[sheepgomeep]

We have had no help at all with dd2. My mum is useless with dd2 but great with my other kids

[DeepThought]

Sheepgomeep

Not seen you around for aaaaages

I heart your name

Okeydoke, as you were, hijack over

[jumblies]

I think a lot of factors can contrive to make motherhood a tougher experience.

DD was a bad sleeper she would wake 3 times a night between 10am and 7am till she was about 17 months old. She has recently started to sleep through but is now an early riser ( 5/5.30am) and she is a highly strung to say the least...picky eater, hates pushchair, champion tantrumer. To be honest she was never an easy baby and I think this was more difficult to handle than the lack of sleep.

I am now pregnant with my second and am a little apprehensive to say the least. Heres hoping I get a laid back sleeper

[Wizzska]

I had a really bad sleeper for the first 7 months but I managed somehow. You go round in a sort of haze. I'd rather that than an ill or crying baby. Luckily my DS has a good smiley nature. Not sure how I'd cope with sleep deprivation for 3 years like my brother had to though.

It is my opinion that if you have a good sleeper, there's no point in being smug because somewhere along the line your child will give you grief about something. Nobody gets away scot free.

[JemL]

Agree that "through the night" means different things to different people.
At the baby group I went to with DS, one mum was always talking about how her few week old baby went through the night - it was only after a few weeks that she mentioned this was 1.30 am to 5.30 am!

Ds went 11-5 from about 5 weeks and then 9pm til 6am from 9 weeks. However he didn't sleep in the day, and fed constantly - so I used to do everything in the evening when he was in bed, so didn't get much sleep then either! Although i agree this is not as bad a s a broken night...!

[blueshoes]

What really gets on my tits are people who say "my baby is so good, she slept through from 3 weeks" as if my horrendous sleepers were 'bad' babies.

I am used to bad sleepers. Dd, now 5.8 years, finally decided she is going to give up co-sleeping and has now progressed to her own room. It has taken us this long.

Ds 2.8 is still in my bed. He keeps a half vigil all night long to make sure I don't leave the bed. If I do, he is up within minutes. As a baby, he would wake every hour or so, often to cry and fuss. dd was the same.

I got by with co-sleeping and bf-ing lying down.

It was their strong personalities (which had a knock-on effect on their sleep) that made it far more difficult to cope with during the day. It was like walking on eggshells when they were babies. dd was a poor eater as well.

[trixymalixy]

YASNBU!!!

DS was a terrible sleeper and was up 3-4 times a night until he was 18 months.

I really think I would have enjoyed my mat leave so much better if he had slept well.

Bfing was awful for the forst 6 months as he would scream the whole time as he had undiagnosed allergies.The weaning process was also horrendous, he didn't really eat properly until he was about 12 months. I think I would have coped much better with how frustrating the feeding was if I'd had more sleep though.

Both the sleep and the feeding issues were exacerbated by his multiple allergies.

I'm now 30 weeks with DC2 and I am really really dreading the first 6 months or so. I'm hoping now we know that there's a high likelihood of allergies then we can deal with them a lot earlier and things will be much better [hopeful emoticon].

[squilly]

Blueshoes, I feel your pain, but I probably said this . I didn't mean that dd would be bad if she didn't sleep or that babies who didn't sleep weren't good. It was just good that she did sleep ifykwim.

Apologises unreservedly for all the years she's upset other mums

[nickytwotimes]

YANBU.
Ds has alwyas been a good sleeper EXCEPT for a 5 mth period around winter just passed.
It was a nightmare.
Me and dh were wrecks.

Life is better with sleep.

[SparkyFartDust]

YANBU.

would discuss, but too knackered.

[blueshoes]

No hard feelings, squilly . I realise it is not spoken with the intention of making mothers with poor sleepers feel bad about theirs.

I know what is meant is that it is 'good' for parents that their babies sleep through, or are smiley, or eat well, rather than a judgment on the baby. Having had the exact opposite of placid, smiley, sleeping babies, I have very little to say about them!

[3rdandBird]

"Agree that "through the night" means different things to different people."

That is so true!

My friend had a baby in March and i suspect that she exaggerated alot about how "good" her baby was at night.

"She only wakes once in the night for a feed" she would say about her 2 week old. "Once" in the night actually meant going down at 12am, waking at 3am for her night feed, then fed again at 6am

My dd has always been a great sleeper, sleeping from 10pm-8am from 10 weeks old. I would never bragg to people i met about this though, that would just be wrong.

[PuppyMonkey]

Am I the only one who used to get irrationally jealous of random people walking down the street, because they probably had had a good night's sleep. I used to see people and give them absolute daggers if they looked a bit chirpy.

I even got pissed off with Sally Webster off Coronation Street once for being able to have a big party and a lie-in the next day.

Sleep envy. Tis a terrible thing.

[bruffin]

Both my DC's slept through from aboout 12 weeks. By that I mean having a last feed before I went to bed probably about 10 and waking about 7 in morning. No sleep training involved, they just didn't wake up for a feed one night.

I hate the insinuation on mumsnet (and I have never come across it on other parenting websites) that either

a) you are either lying or
b) that you are a cruel parent who must be doing something to make them sleep through.

The first 3 months is hard with sleep deprivation but I did find that if I needed a nap they would fall asleep with me.

Ds did have a phase when he was 2 for about a year when he would come into us, but we just told him to bring his quilt and he slept on the floor by our bed.

[YorkshireRose]

MMJ, babies don't need to be woken up to feed at night if they don't wake up. Unless they are very prem or have some other illness which could prevent them waking up.

My DD slept through the night from birth, but the MW obviously thought I was locking her in a cupboard and ignoring her when I told her this, as she told me I HAD to wake her up every 3 hours in the night to feed. Despite the fact that she was a big baby at birth and put on weight hand over fist.

I told her she was welcome to come over and do that herself if she wanted, but I was going to continue to thank my lucky stars for an easy baby and keep getting my 7 hours sleep thanks very much!