to be completely horrified and insulted to see ashes on ds1's forehead?

[Foz]

my 5 year old DS1 came home from school on Ash Wednesday with ash on his forehead after his community school (not C of E) took him to Church, let the vicar give a semon to him all about Jesus/the need to pray/drinking wine is drinking the blood of Christ/stale bread is the body of Christ/Jesus dying for my son's sins/resurection/etc., then put the ash on his forehead (he did volunteer though he didn't know where he was, what they were going to do or what it meant).

Background- I was raised and practiced Jew for 30 years. Now both my husband and I are atheists. I grew up in the states where this would never be allowed within non religious schools. I fully appreciate there are many things wrong with the states but with my background I was not prepared for this.

My concerns -

1. I do not agree with collective worship in a 'broadly Christian way' that is a state requirement. It is discriminatory, insulting and unbelievable that the school should take on the role of spiritual leader for my child 5 days a week.
2. My only recourse is to exclude him which makes my son feel like something is wrong with him. How fair is that! What choice do I have?
3. Taking my son at 5 and allowing a vicar to talk to the children about Christianity without explaining faith and that this is what Christians' believe (not universal fact) is irresponsible and a form of indoctrination. This was NOT part of collective worship and how could the school not think to inform the parents before going?
4. This is all based on a Victorian law section 70 and schedule 20 which was created in Victorian times when more than 95% of the British population were practising Christians. Now less than 8% are practising - should this law still be in practice?

I can see why you would feel this way, but the only point that you can ultimately take up with the school is point 3, they should have informed you that they would be visiting the church and explaining what the trip was for. You do not know how they presented the trip to the children and the other points are universal issues in this country and not linked to your school specifically.

I believe you can opt out of such things can you not? Perhaps a letter to the school saying that your son is not to participate?

did you not know anything about this? I am surprised that the school didn't notify parents. My kids school always lets parents know about all events (normally with a request for helpers to walk the kids there and back )

Home educate instead?

But Ash Wednesday was ages ago! In February! Are you making this up for effect?

You need to write a letter to the head if you do not want your children to partake in stuff like this- did you not realise that they would?( not to the extent to being smeared in ash, but that they would partake in marking main religious days etc)

OOps, yea, is this a piss take?

YABU. It's part of their education. They will also be taught about Muslim and Jewish and Hindu practises. They may also be planning on visiting a mosque or a synagogue or a temple

We are catholic. Dd came home with a ?bindi (hope I got the right word) after learning about Divali - or something, it was years ago.

It didn't worry me in the least. She is perfectly capable of understanding that other people have beliefs that are not the same as ours, but it is ok to learn about them and respect them.

My ds is at a C of E primary and they study a variety of religions. For example one day he came home with a Diwali candle that he had made.

I think it's a good thing to learn about religion as it promotes understanding of other cultures and hopefully tolerance

Oh - just noticed the date of your post.

And how on earth are you insulted?

Assuming you're just a slow poster, I do agree generally, as I'm an atheist too.

But, at the same time, it is useful to know Christian traditions if you live in this country (gives you a leg up understanding literature, language, culture etc) - and he's not going to be indoctrinated by the quaint\ridiculous practice of ash on the forehead.

But I know where you're coming from. The US rule on no religion in schools is a good one but if you're feeling down you can comfort yourself that at least the UK has far less religion in the public sphere overall...

Constant vigilance is required on that front though!

I don't get why you wouldn't want your children to know about religions. You don't have to have faith, but it's important to know about them, surely?

ash wednesday was a good long while ago

if you feel this strongly about this issue, you should have written a letter to school, when you were notified of the trip to the church and you could have requested that your DS did not participate in any religious elements such as having ash on his forehead

if you are atheists , then surely an ash cross is simply a meaningless symbol of a story? and how can it be insulting? or horrifying>

if worshipful symbols provoke such horror in you, it is incumbent on you to ensure your son is 'protected' , for want of a better word

you were clearly so horrified it took you 2 months to post

YANBU. I would not be happy about this. There is a difference between learning about religion and participating in a religious ceremony, and I would want to be informed that this was happening.
I went to a CofE primary school and remember going to church on special occasions but my parents knew beforehand.
I don't believe in faith schools whatsoever.

BTW-I believe in religious education- teaching of all the faiths, customs etc. That is an important part of understanding people and society.

I teach my children to respect what others believe but I feel others should respect what we believe as well.

There is a difference between being taught about different religions and being taken along to actively worship.

Personally I believe all state funded eduction should be free of worship of any deities, christian or otherwise.

Assuming that this isn't a piss take, I wouldn't like this either. I am delighted that my children learn ABOUT world religions including Christianity at school. I do NOT want them to actually DO IT! Bindis and Dwali lamps are not at all comparable to Ash Wednesday ashes - making a lamp does not mean you are taking part in a ceremony and Hindu women wear bindis not just as part of worship.

But the time to complain was February. I suspect the OP thought Ash Wednesday came just before Maundy Thursday and Good Friday. Not a mistake children educated to the nationl Curriculum would make!

Horrified and insulted? You must lead a v. sheltered life. It is completely healthy for children to learn about other religions. Get over yourself.

but if the school don;t know what you and your family believe, then that is your issue

we are jewish, the children are at christian school, i have written it to each new teacher to say what i do not want the DCs to participate in and what is ok.

you have to tell teh school explicitly what your boundaries are

This was two weeks ago (April 1st and no this is not an April Fools)- I was told by the mother standing next to me that it was Ash Wednesday. I just took her word for it.

And I did have a meeting with the head the next day. Her response was that they did not have to inform me about the outing as it was walking distance from the school and I had signed off on local walks. I don't think taking my child in to speak with a vicar as just a local walk.

Lulois you are spot on.

Is this a reference to that thread by KerryMum last year? Thread title is almost the same but you use horrified and she used mortified.

here

(apols if I'm wrong OP)

i agree that you should have been informed by the school, but again,the onus is on you as a parent, to ensure the school is aware of this

you clrealy feel strongly., but the shcool don;t know that!